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Problems / Dealer Service Having a problem with your vehicle? Were you treated fairly or poorly at a dealer? Warranty issues? Let us know.

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  #1  
Old 01-10-2011, 06:28 PM
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o2 sensor code

So I have had my XK for about 6 months now and have about 36,000 miles on her. The check engine light came on for the first time 3 weeks ago.

I take it to the dealership (it is still under warrenty) to have them check it out and see what is wrong. They come up with the code P013C which is one of the o2 sensors. They call the warrenty company, replace it, I pay my deductible and I leave.

I live about 6 miles away from the dealership and I pull onto my street and the check engine light is one once again. I call them right back and let them know whats going on, bring it back up there the next day to test it again. Same code P013C. .

They said that they didn't reset the system, so they did it once again and I go home. Two days later the light comes on again. Take it back up to the shop, leave it there over night and they replace another o2 sensor. (2 of 4). I pick it up again and pull onto my street and the darn light comes on again.

So again I take it back up to the shop they run the test and the same code comes back up. Doesn't make any sense. I myself don't know that much about cars as is, but am trying to learn as much as I can.

Has anyone had this problem before?? Sorry for the novel but I just want to get answers because the shop can't figure it out. They have to get in touch with the warrenty company and try to see if they can replace the last two o2 sensors. I don't know if that is going to fix this problem or not.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:10 AM
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I'm no expert but I did some interweb searching and found this:

http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Maint.../Oxygen-Sensor

But it doesn't explain why the O2 sensors would get a slow to response code thrown after being replaced.

They are supposed to send signals to the computer to adjust gas mixture constantly from rich to lean and lean to rich, to maintain optimum mixture. The slow to respond means the o2 sensors are not seeing a correction of mixture within a specificed time period (slow to respond).

My guess is either they were faulty or they were installed incorrectly, or the computer that receives the signal and stores the fault is malfunctioning or didn't get cleared or the process of changing from rich to lean to rich is malfunctioning.

But I'm no mechanic. We have some good ones here that will chime in.
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:11 AM
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thanks for the link and the input. I still haven't heard anything back about what the factoy/dealership have come up with. Ill just have to wait and see.
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:46 AM
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P013C is clearly defined as the downstream (after the catalytic converter) sensor on bank 2, which is the driver's side engine bank of cylinders.

Look under your truck, I bet the two they've replaced so far aren't in the sensor 2 bank 2 position!

The dealer is either clueless or taking you (and the warranty company) for a ride.
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:50 AM
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Bank 1=Passenger side
Bank 2=Driver's side
Sensor 1=Engine HO2S (heated oxygen sensor)
Sensor 2=Post Catalyst HO2S

Take it back and tell them it's the sensor behind the catalyst on the driver's side that needs to be replaced.

Dave
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:27 PM
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Thanks for the information Dave. Ill let you know what they say when I bring it back up to them.
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:52 PM
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I could NOT find anything with a quick search on P013C, so you want to confirm what it means.

It is possible they replaced the wrong O2 sensor.

Its also possible the problem is NOT the O2 sensor, but something related to the O2 sensor, thats why it keeps setting the code, even though they've replaced the O2 sensor multiple times.


O2 sensor slow to respond, that could mean:
  • The O2 sensor is bad
  • There could be something wrong with the wiring of the O2 sensor
  • There could be something wrong with the engine creating exhaust that isn't making the O2 sensor respond as quickly as it should.
  • There could be something wrong with the Catalytic Converter, which the downstream O2 sensor is there to monitor the output of the CAT, that cause the O2 sensor to respond to slowly.
The Dealership should have Factory Service Manuals with specific troubleshooting procedures to narrow down the actual cause to fix it, instead of just performing the most obvious replacement again and again, with the same result, which is failure.
An independent shop may NOT be able to support individual service manuals for your specific vehicle, but something like this is fairly generic in operation to other vehicles, they should have some sort of trouble shooting guide.

Yes, the Dealership should have the advantage over independent shops, with factory service manuals and special tools. BUT, sadly, the Dealerships have been so insulated from competition for various reasons, they have no incentive to maintain any quality and despite having all the advantages, they still can't do as good of a job as an independent shop. The manufacturers have even, for all practical purposes, locked DIY'er and Independent shops out of a lot of the elctronics in your vehicle forcing you to the dealership as the only one to be able to perform the procedure to repair your vehicle.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:52 PM
dmoser dmoser is offline
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If it were catalyst efficiency, you'd have a P0420 or P0430 code too.

Wiring, you'd have multiple codes set: open circuit, etc.

It's likely a bad sensor and the dealer just didn't know the position that code specifies (again, it is B2S2). The calibration has a specific O2 sensor response diagnostic that runs per trip and that sensor failed it. The diagnostic works by step changing the AFR and looking for a certain response factor from the sensors.

Carbon, phosphorus (oil poisoning) and sulfur are all things that can degrade O2 sensors. Assuming you're not running pig rich, burning a bunch of oil or using high sulfur fuel, it is prob just a bad sensor at that loc'n, otherwise the other sensors would have problems too.

It happens.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:57 PM
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If you want to experiment yourself, swap the rear O2 sensors side to side and clear the codes w/an OBDII reader (you can borrow these from auto parts stores). If you get another code shortly after and it is "P013A", you know for a fact the sensor you moved to the passenger side is bad.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoser View Post
If you want to experiment yourself, swap the rear O2 sensors side to side and clear the codes w/an OBDII reader (you can borrow these from auto parts stores). If you get another code shortly after and it is "P013A", you know for a fact the sensor you moved to the passenger side is bad.
Yes, that is a very good trouble shooting step.

And thanks, I did NOT mention that in cases where a good O2 sensor is showing bad because of other problems causing it, you should get other codes for those problems with the O2 sensor.

Its possible to get just the O2 sensor code, and NOT codes for something else being slightly off, when its a good O2 sensor, but NOT likely.

And finally, keep in mind, the O2 sensor are mounted in the exhaust, and the wires sometimes get too close to the exhaust and melt and short. That is why O2 sensors have fairly long pig tails for connecting to the harness, so you replace the melted wire with the O2 sensor, but its possible wires and connectors farther up on the wire harness were damaged, and the shorts or open circuits from that damage is causing the PCM to see the O2 sensor as bad. You can look the wiring over yourself and see if you see any damaged wiring or connectors.

If swapping sensors around, and the problem stays at the location and does NOT move with the sensor, then the wiring would be the first thing I suspect.
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