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  #1  
Old 01-21-2011, 10:59 AM
meegwell meegwell is offline
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Check Gas Cap Indicator Keeps Appearing

I've searched and read a lot of messages concerning this issue and have not found any that go as far as my situation w/ a resolution.

08 5.7 limited w/ 13k miles.


Check Gas Cap message came on, followed by Check Engine Light (I understand why the check engine light comes on following the Check Gas Cap, and I understand the whole evap pressure system as the root of the indicator).

I checked the gas cap (duh). Light and message still still on (for days of driving).

First Service visit: They did a "pressure test" and it passed. They reset the lights and "tightened up" the gas cap. I knew I'd be back since I was sure I tightened the gas cap but crossed my fingers and left.

Few days later: Check Gas Cap message came on, followed by Check Engine Light

Second Service visit: They did a "smoke test" to look for leaks. No leaks found. They replaced the gas cap with a new one, citing possible bad seal or sensor. They also replaced the "solinoid" or something similar sounding. Reset lights. I crossed my fingers and left.

Few days later: Check Gas Cap message came on, followed by Check Engine Light
Third visit is scheduled for Tuesday, they asked I leave it over night so they can test it cold.

Anyone been here before or have any ideas/knowledge?

Summary:
  • Smoke test and pressure test passed.
  • Gas cap was replaced with a new one.
  • "solinoid" or something like that was replaced.
  • Check Gas Cap (evap leak indicator) still comes on.
  • Check engine light follows (as expected due to the first problem)
This sux because the remote start will not work w/ a check engine light on...and I like the remote start for loading young kids in the jeep on cold mornings.


Meegwell
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  #2  
Old 01-21-2011, 11:59 AM
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Thank the EPA, they made the standard for the EVAP system so ridiculously high that people are going nuts and dropping tons of cash trying to correct a non-existent problem.

OBDII is a federal standard that requires vehicles to use its engine control computer to self-test the vehicle for meeting all federal emissions standards.

You are failing the evap test, because the Chrysler Test System is reacting like it has a leak. NOTE, I said the system is reacting like it has a leak, NOT, that it actually has a leak.

Of course the manufacturer is going to try to develop the cheapest most reliable system to perform this test. Its NOT done in a laboratory, but they need a laboratory like test performed on a moving vehicle. So they come up with this tortured system of a cheap vacuum pump, that actually pumps up over pressure in the fuel system, using engine vacuum controlled through a electric solenoid valve, and a little read switch and the computer monitors how often and how fast the diaphragms in the vacuum pump go back and forth at full deflection, to tell if there is a leak or NOT.

The computer has no idea what the pressure is in the fuel system and evap system, NOR whether there is a leak or NOT. All it knows is that diaphragms in the vacuum pump go up and down fast enough and stops moving within a certain time. If it doesn't, then there must be a leak.

Thats why they replaced the solenoid valve, it controls the vacuum pump.

I've replaced half the Evap system on my Neon R/T before the Evap CEL stopped coming back. It still comes back every once in a while, I clear it and it seems to go away for a year or two.

Its been a real problem for all the manufacturers, a vehicle gets an evap DTC and they can't figure out what is causing it, and even its a leak or NOT, or if its something in the detect system causing it to erroneously detecting a leak.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:11 PM
MrMischiefVIP MrMischiefVIP is offline
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I recommend pouring a bit of a gas on the ground, preferably near a lake or a stream. It won't fix your problem but at least you can get even with the EPA.

Anyone know if the evap system is listed as a "major control component"? If so it has a 8 year, 80,000 mile warranty. Keep taking it to the dealer, I don't know how else you're going to get something so dumb and specialized fixed.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:26 PM
06h 06h is offline
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Do you turn off your vehicle when fueling it? When you tighten your gas cap does it click and if so his many clicks? What has the temperature been?

I really don't think the EPA is out to get you like the other conspiracy theorist's. EPA just set the standard, is it their fault that a company built a inferior product that has issues meeting the standard?

The funny part is Ford apperently meets the standard and some of their vehicles don't even have gas caps. So it can't be that hard!

Last edited by 06h; 01-21-2011 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:13 PM
MrMischiefVIP MrMischiefVIP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06h View Post
The funny part is Ford apperently meets the standard and some of their vehicles don't even have gas caps. So it can't be that hard!
http://tinyurl.com/4zogya7


Seems like there are plenty of Ford issues as well.
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:53 PM
06h 06h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMischiefVIP View Post
http://tinyurl.com/4zogya7


Seems like there are plenty of Ford issues as well.
Here is where it gets funny. I checked out your link the first part was really funny when it said what's so hard! The point was Ford makes vehicles without gas caps, not that they have problems with older vehicle gas caps. IS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND??
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Old 01-21-2011, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06h View Post
Do you turn off your vehicle when fueling it? When you tighten your gas cap does it click and if so his many clicks? What has the temperature been?

I really don't think the EPA is out to get you like the other conspiracy theorist's. EPA just set the standard, is it their fault that a company built a inferior product that has issues meeting the standard?

The funny part is Ford apperently meets the standard and some of their vehicles don't even have gas caps. So it can't be that hard!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 06h View Post
Here is where it gets funny. I checked out your link the first part was really funny when it said what's so hard! The point was Ford makes vehicles without gas caps, not that they have problems with older vehicle gas caps. IS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND??
Really? You intentionally misconstrue what we've been saying through the whole thread, then accuse us of misconstruing what you said, when we did NOT, you're simply re-parsing your statement after the fact.

Show me where one person said the EPA was in a conspiracy out to get people??

I said the EPA caused the problem by setting the standard too high, implying it was simple bureaucratic screw up or agenda pushing, you always see in government, that hurts so many people. Yea, thats a conspiracy theory.

FORD came up with a Gas Cap that you do NOT have unscrew, big whoop, I guess simple minds are impressed by simple gimmicks. That spring loaded lip, gets scratched or dented, the spring fails or weakens, which is more likely to happen than a simple gas cap, you'll have to replace it and that looks a lot harder to replace then a gas cap. And the vent valve? Why is it less likely to fail?

Oh, did you think the guys problem might still be a bad gas cap?? this is the Thermostat thread all over again.
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Last edited by Mongo; 01-21-2011 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMischiefVIP View Post
http://tinyurl.com/4zogya7


Seems like there are plenty of Ford issues as well.
Ok that was pretty cool bro, I liked that it had a little cool factor to it as well.
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:39 AM
Motorcity Motorcity is offline
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The system works by vacuum, At startup the fuel tank has vacuum pulled, to ck for leaks. If the system can't be pulled down, it triggers a fault code. It could be a number of compnents. The vapor canister, one of many hoes in the sytem, the gas cap, fill tube, etc. They need to inspect some of the lines, for a possible leak, the canister for proper operation, & the purge solenoid, to name a couple of possible things.

Last edited by Motorcity; 01-22-2011 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:11 AM
06h 06h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
Really? You intentionally misconstrue what we've been saying through the whole thread, then accuse us of misconstruing what you said, when we did NOT, you're simply re-parsing your statement after the fact.

Show me where one person said the EPA was in a conspiracy out to get people??

I said the EPA caused the problem by setting the standard too high, implying it was simple bureaucratic screw up or agenda pushing, you always see in government, that hurts so many people. Yea, thats a conspiracy theory.

FORD came up with a Gas Cap that you do NOT have unscrew, big whoop, I guess simple minds are impressed by simple gimmicks. That spring loaded lip, gets scratched or dented, the spring fails or weakens, which is more likely to happen than a simple gas cap, you'll have to replace it and that looks a lot harder to replace then a gas cap. And the vent valve? Why is it less likely to fail?

Oh, did you think the guys problem might still be a bad gas cap?? this is the Thermostat thread all over again.
Its ok calm down! What I said that Ford meets the standard and some of their vehicle's don't have gas caps. So yes you are correct Ford gas cap less system is a simple design and it works. So whats the problem? Why is everyone complicating the problem if its so simple for Ford to get it right without a gas cap?

Are you still confused about thermostats. Yes they open and close in the summer and winter, how many times do we need to go over this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
Thank the EPA, they made the standard for the EVAP system so ridiculously high that people are going nuts and dropping tons of cash trying to correct a non-existent problem. OBDII is a federal standard that requires vehicles to use its engine control computer to seltest the vehicle for meeting all federal emissions standards.
Well seems like someone is blaming the EPA. The EPA didn't design the system, did the EPA build the Commander? Didn't the system work fine when it left the dealership so how is this the EPA problem? Seems like alot of blaming others and the governments out to get ya by making life harder for you! The government isn't out for you and to drive you insane! Wouldn't it be Jeeps problem since they built it, oh that right Jeep does nothing wrong! Except for smoking pot and drinking on the job, needing government funding, building a unfit for human consumption vehicle and then wonder why anyone bought them (priceless)!

Unfit for human consumption, need we say anymore!

Last edited by 06h; 01-22-2011 at 11:15 AM.
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