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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-30-2010, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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New Axle Fluid

Just changed my Axle Fluid, front and rear with AMSOIL Severe Gear Lube 75W-140.

I have the QT-I system, it is open differentials, and I confirmed they are open before changing the oil.

I've seen references of using the friction modifier when changing the fluid, and for the other systems that have LSD's, that makes perfect sense. BUT, it doesn't make sense for the open differentials for my system. Does anyone know for sure?

Do you use friction modifier in a Commander Axle if it has an open differential, front or rear?

Rear Axle had a lot of goop in the oil, most settled to the bottom of the axle, a lot of stuff on the pan magnet on the bottom also, like on a automatic trans pan gasket. I'm assuming this is normal, probably assembly lube/grease and some extreme fine debri from break-in.

Does this sound normal for the first rear axle fluid change, some goop and fine debri on the oil pan?

The front axle, I changed it on level ground, drained till it no longer dripped. I even flushed it with a couple ounces of fresh fluid before capping the drain and filling, and I only filled it with 48 oz or so, by the time it was full, the capacity is suppose to be 57.5 oz.

Does the front axle trap 9-10 oz of fluid on level ground?

The next time, I plan on jacking up the front of the vehicle, see if I can get some of that trapped fluid to drain back toward the drain hole at the back of the differential case.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-30-2010, 10:48 AM
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I was told from several dealers and Jeep mechanice that friction additive is only for the QD II axles with the ELSD's. There is absolutely no reason to put friction modifier in an open differential. It would serve no point and be a waste of money. I have never added friction modifier to my axles and I just hit 70,000 miles with no isses and I bought the XK brand new in 07.




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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-30-2010, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
Just changed my Axle Fluid, front and rear with AMSOIL Severe Gear Lube 75W-140.

I have the QT-I system, it is open differentials, and I confirmed they are open before changing the oil.

I've seen references of using the friction modifier when changing the fluid, and for the other systems that have LSD's, that makes perfect sense. BUT, it doesn't make sense for the open differentials for my system. Does anyone know for sure?

Do you use friction modifier in a Commander Axle if it has an open differential, front or rear?
According to my book, the axle fluid needs to be changed every 15,000 miles. All 3 drive systems take the friction modifier. I did find out that my book had a misprint concerning what fluid to put in the transfer case, so possibly this is wrong also. I have QDII, so do I do use the friction modifier.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-30-2010, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07JeepXK View Post
I was told from several dealers and Jeep mechanice that friction additive is only for the QD II axles with the ELSD's. There is absolutely no reason to put friction modifier in an open differential. It would serve no point and be a waste of money. I have never added friction modifier to my axles and I just hit 70,000 miles with no isses and I bought the XK brand new in 07.
As well, if anything, NOT using the friction modifier will let the fluid protect the gears better.

The friction modifier reduces the slipperiness of the fluid, to let the clutch surfaces engage properly. Same stuff they mix into ATF for the same reasons. No, it doesn't reduce slipperiness enough to compromise protecting the gears, just enough for the best compromise between lubricating the metal to metal contact and letting the friction surfaces do their job.

BUT, if you don't have any Friction Surfaces, then why compromise, use the slipperiest fluid possible.

Thanks for confirming what I suspected. BTW, for those that have the LSD/ELSD, keep in mind, if you don't use the friction modifier, the clutches in the differential won't engage like they should and it can cause poor differential performance or the clutches wearing out quicker.

Since you guys mentioned it, I did the Transfer Case also, AMSOIL Synthetic ATF. Although I have my concerns with AMSOIL claiming their Synthetic is multi-vehicle and meets/exceeds all specs for all ATF's; I've got no problem using it in the NV-140 that calls for ATF+4. Chrysler now uses ATF+4 for all ATF uses, and in the past it was just plain Dexron or any ATF as long as it was ATF, for xfr cases that use ATF. There are no friction surfaces in the NV-140, so I'm confident the AMSOIL synthetic ATF will work great and likely better than ATF+4 in that xfr case.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-30-2010, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhh3 View Post
According to my book, the axle fluid needs to be changed every 15,000 miles. All 3 drive systems take the friction modifier. I did find out that my book had a misprint concerning what fluid to put in the transfer case, so possibly this is wrong also. I have QDII, so do I do use the friction modifier.

Your book is wrong. There is no need for the modifier unless its a QD II axle.
So yes, if you have QD II you need to use it.




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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-31-2010, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07JeepXK View Post
Your book is wrong. There is no need for the modifier unless its a QD II axle.
So yes, if you have QD II you need to use it.
Last year, there was an issue what to put in the transfer case. My owners manual said Mopar ATF+4 Automatic Transmission Fluid. The guys on the forum determined this to be a misprint, as the 4.7 & 5.7 transfer case take Mopar NV 247 Transfer Case Lubricant. Someone even posted a picture of the page from their owners manual. I cut it out and taped in in my book. This page also does not differentiate between the 3 drive systems when it come to what fluid to put in the axles. It is the same as what was printed in my book: Axle Differential (Front-Rear): Mopar Synthetic Gear & Axle Lubricant SAE 75W-140 (API-GL5) or eqivalent with friction modifier additive. There is no separate section for QTI, QTII, or QDII. The dealer told me I need it (I have QDII) so this is not an issue for me, but if Chrysler recommends it for the other drive systems, I'd use it. I understand what you and Mongo are saying about this, but where are you getting this information?
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-31-2010, 08:49 AM
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Well it wasnt really a misprint. Back in 2006, the Transfer Cases did use Mopar ATF +4 Transmission fluid. Then they started having isues with chatter and decided to put out a TSP and swap from ATF+4 to Mopar NV 245/247/249 Transfer Case fluid. So not really a misprint, they just changed what type of fluid to use since your owners manual was made.

The axles in QT I, QT II and QD II all take Synthetic 75W-140. I'm not sure why they wrote all the axles require friction modifier. Thats definately not true. Chrysler doesnt recommend it for the axles in QT I and QD II so its got to be a misprint. I have spoke with several dealers and several Jeep mechanics and they all say its not needed unless you have the ELSD's found in the QD II axles. Plus it basically common sense. I have open differentials front and rear. Putting friction additive in the differentials would serve no purpose what so ever. Its used for clutch type limited slip differentials and other differentials, not open differentials.




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Last edited by 07JeepXK; 10-31-2010 at 08:56 AM.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-31-2010, 09:31 AM
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Finding some gunk and metal shavings on your very first axle fluid change is normal.

friction modifier: we've covered this topic from every angle before. Some members even calling and emailing Jeep corporate site, others grilling mechanics and service personal and a whole lot of research. It is not needed in any of the drive systems except QD2. That being said if your worried you can put it in and it won't hurt anything just waste your money.


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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-31-2010, 10:34 AM
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-31-2010, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhh3 View Post
Last year, there was an issue what to put in the transfer case. My owners manual said Mopar ATF+4 Automatic Transmission Fluid. The guys on the forum determined this to be a misprint, as the 4.7 & 5.7 transfer case take Mopar NV 247 Transfer Case Lubricant. Someone even posted a picture of the page from their owners manual. I cut it out and taped in in my book. This page also does not differentiate between the 3 drive systems when it come to what fluid to put in the axles. It is the same as what was printed in my book: Axle Differential (Front-Rear): Mopar Synthetic Gear & Axle Lubricant SAE 75W-140 (API-GL5) or eqivalent with friction modifier additive. There is no separate section for QTI, QTII, or QDII. The dealer told me I need it (I have QDII) so this is not an issue for me, but if Chrysler recommends it for the other drive systems, I'd use it. I understand what you and Mongo are saying about this, but where are you getting this information?
Yea, the references seem to go back and forth between declaring a single fluid for all drive systems (wrong) and a correct fluid based on the actual component in the different systems (right).

I have only seen ATF+4 recommended for the NV-140, the special Mopar NV-247 Fluid for the NV-247.
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