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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-04-2010, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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HOAT Antifreeze foam

So I was looking over the Jeep and saw something that looked like crystals on the over flow tank removeable filler neck in the tank. So i removed the filler neck and it was foamish. So removed the radiator cap and there was a pinkish orange sludge/gunk on the wall of the radiator. Is that normal at 19,000 miles on a 5.7l?

Jk

Last edited by 06h; 11-04-2010 at 10:02 PM.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-04-2010, 09:59 PM
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How long have you owned the vehicle? Has the coolant been changed out at any point? I'm assuming it's a Commander, what year/engine?

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-04-2010, 10:05 PM
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Have you checked the Owner's Manual ?

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-04-2010, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep5253 View Post
Have you checked the Owner's Manual ?
I have checked owners manual, service manuals, TSB's, Recalls, google and there is nothing about it. Thanks for asking though.

It isn't transmission fluid due to the fact they are two seperate radiators that are not contained within each other.

2007 5.7l limited 19000 miles. Fluid has not been changed.

Also the sludge is slick like its a lube, does it have a additive that would cause this?

Last edited by 06h; 11-04-2010 at 10:16 PM.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2010, 06:45 AM
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Did you buy the Commander new or used? Also have you ever added more coolant? If so what brand?




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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2010, 08:16 AM
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After a couple of years, getting some residue from evaporation on the Expansion Tank is pretty much normal. When I drain and replace the Coolant, I often remove the tank and clean it well.

Short Answer: Change out your coolant with the Mopar Stuff or Zerex G-05 (aftermarket equalevalent). Thats what I did with my '02 Caravan (Mopar HOAT Coolant) and the gunk never came back, I also changed it every 3ys/60k miles, instead of the recommended 5yr/100k miles. Use Distilled Water.

Long Answer:
DexCool does NOT mix with other anti-freezes, HOAT does, but its NOT recommended. i.e. a little bit of other coolants mixed in DexCool can cause big problems, a lot of other coolants mixed in with HOAT may cause some problems.

Chrylser dying their later HOAT the same color of the earlier more commonly know DexCool is Dumb, and people (who don't check their owner's manual, like an idiot) can mistake it for dexcool and add dexcool to their HOAT. That would create some problems, depending on how much dexcool you added.

DexCool has an entirely different approach to anti-corrosion, it will last for 5-6 easily, if your cooling system is functioning 100% and nothing else gets mixed in it, it doesn't get low or have leaks, etc. Basically, the slightest thing goes wrong with DexCool and the problem becomes a 10 times worse with Dexcool.

HOAT has sort a hybrid approach to anti-corrosion that is closer to the old proven green anti-freeze. Like the old green anti-freeze, you can have problems with your cooling system and that does NOT effect the coolant and its still protects adequately. BUT, its anti-corrosion additives get consumed while providing that protection, and once consumed the protection is reduced. That is why I've seen multiple recommendations to change out HOAT coolant ealier than recommended, like at 4 or 3 years/60k-80k miles, don't wait for the 5 years/100k miles recommendation.

In my '02 Mini-Van with HOAT, I've gotten that orangish sludge at the very top of the coolant level at the radiator cap, it was just a little. I drained all the coolant (NOT just the radiator), flushed with Distilled water, and refilled with Zerex G-05 (aftermarket HOAT anti-freeze) 50/50 mix with distilled water. (My normal coolant change). Never had the orangish sludge come back, done coolant changes every 3 years.

The slick, oil feel that the coolant leaves behind, I've gotten that everytime at coolant changes, even the fresh HOAT seems to have a little bit of that feel on the surfaces, but yes, it does seem a little worse with older HOAT. I've concluded (right or wrong) that it was just a property of HOAT anti-freeze.

HOAT uses the silicates and a tiny bit of phosophates (NOT sure, maybe its just Silicates) of the old green anti-freeze and some new anti-corrosion additives that coat the metal of the cooling system to protect. Perhaps the new addtives give the slick, oily feel.

DexCool uses a chemical that stops the ionic reaction that causes rust, it doesn't coat the any of the parts, thus it doesn't repair any of the damage from cavitation like other anti-freezes, and the chemical will soften certain plastics and rubbers often used in cooling systems, causing leaks. SO, you never want to use DexCool unless its in a vehicle specifically designed for dexcool. If the coolant level gets low in the engine and air is in the system, DexCool, since it doesn't coat the metal parts, has to be in contact with the metal to protect. So, with Dexcool, if there is air in your cooling system, the exposed to air metals starts to corrode and it corrodes fast, and the rust sluffs off and forms the orange foam and gunk.

Last edited by Mongo; 11-05-2010 at 09:24 AM.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2010, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
After a couple of years, getting some residue from evaporation on the Expansion Tank is pretty much normal. When I drain and replace the Coolant, I often remove the tank and clean it well.

Short Answer: Change out your coolant with the Mopar Stuff or Zerex G-05 (aftermarket equalevalent). Thats what I did with my '02 Caravan (Mopar HOAT Coolant) and the gunk never came back, I also changed it every 3ys/60k miles, instead of the recommended 5yr/100k miles. Use Distilled Water.

Long Answer:
DexCool does NOT mix with other anti-freezes, HOAT does, but its NOT recommended. i.e. a little bit of other coolants mixed in DexCool can cause big problems, a lot of other coolants mixed in with HOAT may cause some problems.

Chrylser dying their later HOAT the same color of the earlier more commonly know DexCool is Dumb, and people (who don't check their owner's manual, like an idiot) can mistake it for dexcool and add dexcool to their HOAT. That would create some problems, depending on how much dexcool you added.

DexCool has an entirely different approach to anti-corrosion, it will last for 5-6 easily, if your cooling system is functioning 100% and nothing else gets mixed in it, it doesn't get low or have leaks, etc. Basically, the slightest thing goes wrong with DexCool and the problem becomes a 10 times worse with Dexcool.

HOAT has sort a hybrid approach to anti-corrosion that is closer to the old proven green anti-freeze. Like the old green anti-freeze, you can have problems with your cooling system and that does NOT effect the coolant and its still protects adequately. BUT, its anti-corrosion additives get consumed while providing that protection, and once consumed the protection is reduced. That is why I've seen multiple recommendations to change out HOAT coolant ealier than recommended, like at 4 or 3 years/60k-80k miles, don't wait for the 5 years/100k miles recommendation.

In my '02 Mini-Van with HOAT, I've gotten that orangish sludge at the very top of the coolant level at the radiator cap, it was just a little. I drained all the coolant (NOT just the radiator), flushed with Distilled water, and refilled with Zerex G-05 (aftermarket HOAT anti-freeze) 50/50 mix with distilled water. (My normal coolant change). Never had the orangish sludge come back, done coolant changes every 3 years.

The slick, oil feel that the coolant leaves behind, I've gotten that everytime at coolant changes, even the fresh HOAT seems to have a little bit of that feel on the surfaces, but yes, it does seem a little worse with older HOAT. I've concluded (right or wrong) that it was just a property of HOAT anti-freeze.

HOAT uses the silicates and a tiny bit of phosophates (NOT sure, maybe its just Silicates) of the old green anti-freeze and some new anti-corrosion additives that coat the metal of the cooling system to protect. Perhaps the new addtives give the slick, oily feel.

DexCool uses a chemical that stops the ionic reaction that causes rust, it doesn't coat the any of the parts, thus it doesn't repair any of the damage from cavitation like other anti-freezes, and the chemical will soften certain plastics and rubbers often used in cooling systems, causing leaks. SO, you never want to use DexCool unless its in a vehicle specifically designed for dexcool. If the coolant level gets low in the engine and air is in the system, DexCool, since it doesn't coat the metal parts, has to be in contact with the metal to protect. So, with Dexcool, if there is air in your cooling system, the exposed to air metals starts to corrode and it corrodes fast, and the rust sluffs off and forms the orange foam and gunk.
So its normal in the tank, What about in the radiator?

Bought it new, never added any coolant to the system.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2010, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06h View Post
So its normal in the tank, What about in the radiator?

Bought it new, never added any coolant to the system.
I got it in the radiator, and then it was just a tiny bit, just on the coolant surface of the radiator fill neck where the pressure cap is, coating a little bit on the inside of the filler neck.

I never got it in the expansion tank, it sounded like you had some crusting / residue on the inside of the expansion tank, that comes from evaporation and leaving some crusting/residue on the surface of the tank.

If you're getting foam in the expansion tank, you might have a lot of foam all through the system. I'd flush it out. I'd drain it, as much as you can, pull the hoses, open the drain plugs on the water jackets, fill it with water, run till warmed up and drain again, do it several times, until the water run clears.

I don't like using the corrosive chemical flushes, it can be bad for the seals and the water pump. BUT, sometimes if there is too much gunk you have to resort to the harsh chemical flushes. If you do, then flush (as in fill and drain) with fresh water several times afterwards to get all the chemical out. Then fill with the coolant.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2010, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
I got it in the radiator, and then it was just a tiny bit, just on the coolant surface of the radiator fill neck where the pressure cap is, coating a little bit on the inside of the filler neck.

I never got it in the expansion tank, it sounded like you had some crusting / residue on the inside of the expansion tank, that comes from evaporation and leaving some crusting/residue on the surface of the tank.

If you're getting foam in the expansion tank, you might have a lot of foam all through the system. I'd flush it out. I'd drain it, as much jas you can, pull the hoses, open the drain plugs on the water jackets, fill it with water, run till warmed up and drain again, do it several times, until the water run clears.

I don't like using the corrosive chemical flushes, it can be bad for the seals and the water pump. BUT, sometimes if there is too much gunk you have to resort to the harsh chemical flushes. If you do, then flush (as in fill and drain) with fresh water several times afterwards to get all the chemical out. Then fill with the coolant.
Here's the way I see it. Its under warrenty, it has not meet the requirement for fluid change so the dealer can figure it out. Bumper to bumper Lifetime warrenty, if they say its fine so be it. If they say its bad they need to change it at their expense due to the fact it has not worked as advertised. If it would have meet the change requirement I would gladly change it, if they say its good and the cooling system fails 4 years later its on them.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2010, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06h View Post
Here's the way I see it. Its under warrenty, it has not meet the requirement for fluid change so the dealer can figure it out. Bumper to bumper Lifetime warrenty, if they say its fine so be it. If they say its bad they need to change it at their expense due to the fact it has not worked as advertised. If it would have meet the change requirement I would gladly change it, if they say its good and the cooling system fails 4 years later its on them.
There is no bumper to bumper lifetime warranty. You might have the Chysler Max Care Warranty but it will not cover damage due to having the wrong fluid in your vehicle.

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