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Regular Service / Maintenance This section contains discussion about regular service and maintenance (upkeep) of your Jeep Commander

 
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post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old 02-24-2011, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Ams in everything

Just ordered ams oil for everything! Trans, diffs, t-case, engine, & oil filters (wix trans). I ended up ordering 0W-20 full sythetic for the engine, figured I'd give the lighter engine oil a try and see if there's any difference in fuel economy since 3.45 gal isn't so cheap!

2007 Sport 4.7L Bought New in Dec. of 07' w45 miles. Now has 70k+ Miles & 8 pages of Repair orders-255/65/17 Nitto Crosstek's, Flowmaster 50 SUV, A/C Delco Double Platinum copper cores, AMS Oil All the way around, K&N Air Filter, Weather Tech Floor mats, Lifetime Bumper to Bumper Warranty Exp.- 2082
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post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old 02-24-2011, 02:53 PM
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AMSOIL may say its AutoTrans fluid meets the specs for ATF+4, it doesn't, and its NOT certified by Chrysler as ATF+4. So wether its as good or better or worse than using actual ATF+4 is an academic argument, we all know the dealers, if they figure out you used AMSOIL Synthetic Trans Fluid, they will deny any warranty claim for the transmission.

Yes, I agree ASMOIL makes superior oil products, but they do NOT make Magical Oil products that can change specs according to what transmission you pour them into. You'll find an FAQ entry at AMSOIL admitting that their trans fluid does NOT meet all the specs of all the different fluids it recommends you can use it in replace of. They argue that it is close enough to all the specs, and that its superior quality and slow speed it degrades more than makes up for the being slightly off of the spec.

Having said that, I have yet to hear of a single case of someone complaining of trans problems after using AMSOIL, at least that they could attribute to the fluid, even in the extremely problematic A-604/41TE trans in the mini-vans that almost assurededly fail shortly after using anything but ATF+4. So, I won't say AMSOIL Trans fluid is NOT good for your trans, if I had to guess, I think it will work just fine. In fact, last trans oil change I used AMSOIL instead of ATF+4.

Just be aware, you use the AMSOIL Trans fluid at your own risk, and could have warranty hassles if you do use it.

0W-20 instead of recommended 5W-20, if you have a Hemi, there is very specific warnings to NOT use anything but 5W-20 for the MDS system.

I don't think AMSOIL makes 5W-20 in their GrpIV full synthetic engine oils, just their lower tier brands, which everyone is pretty sure is GrpIII like the rest of the Synthetic oils out there. So, if you want AMSOIL GrpIV, 0W-20 may be your only option.

Again, I'm NOT a big fan of using different than recommended by the manufacturer, unless you have some evidence or reason to use something different. I really doubt using 0W-20 vs 5W-20 will make much if any difference in protecting the motor, and using far better quality grpIV AMSOIL is likely going to more than offset any slight difference in viscosity. Its just the, "I know better than the designers and manufacturers" attitude, when its obvious someone is NOT making an inform choice, that irks me.

I don't think using 0W-20 is going to make any noticeable difference in mileage, if you do notice it, its more likely the lesser pumping losses of the superior AMSOIL and NOT the difference in the viscosity.

I would NOT use AMSOIL for the PS Fluid, Chrysler has a new spec even higher than all the others for the Commander's PS fluid. I have NOT seen anything from AMSOIL stating they meet the new MS-10383 spec for PS fluid, I've only seen them recommend to use the same fluid that they stated for MS-9602 specs, which arguably that fluid didn't meet the earlier spec, let alone the new one. I got the MS-10383 from the dealer, and used that to change out the PS fluid. And disconnecting/reconnecting the return line to the PS pump is an absolute PIA on the Commander. Next time, I might just cut the line and splice a disconnect in it, intead of going through trying to fit my hand next to that pump to disconect the line.

I've got the "feeling" the new MS-10383 is recommended because of the Hydrualic fan on the Hemi's, that uses the PS system to power the fan, which is likely a more demanding environment then most typical PS Systems, thus a new, higher spec. So, if you don't have a hydraulic fan, maybe the earlier spec PS fluid would be fine. BUT, that is pure blind speculation, which could be dead wrong, so I didn't risk it, and just used the MS-10383 from the dealer.

Brake fluid, I have NOT seen anything showing how AMSOIL brake fluid is any different than any other DOT3. You can argue any brake fluid is synthetic. I use Castrol GT/LMA which has different ingredients that are less harsh on the seals and components, absorbs moisture slower than DOT3 and has higher dry boiling temps than DOT4 and higher wet boiling temps than both.


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Last edited by Mongo; 02-24-2011 at 09:47 PM.
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post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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I'm with ya on not changing what the OEM recommends. But, 5-20 to 0-20 not too big of a deal when running the 4.7. Also, I called Jeep and asked them if using Ams was ok in the transmission, they said it was fine since it is a sythetic. Although I didn't get it in writing. Brake fluid I ended up using a vaccum and changed to DOT 4. Like you said when using brake fluid, I'm one to argue there is no such thing as a synthetic brake fluid. I will however, use what Chrysler reccomends in the Power Steering, so I shouldn't have said....everything. Thanks for the specifics it's much appreciated! All the information you spit out, your'e the creator All Data!

2007 Sport 4.7L Bought New in Dec. of 07' w45 miles. Now has 70k+ Miles & 8 pages of Repair orders-255/65/17 Nitto Crosstek's, Flowmaster 50 SUV, A/C Delco Double Platinum copper cores, AMS Oil All the way around, K&N Air Filter, Weather Tech Floor mats, Lifetime Bumper to Bumper Warranty Exp.- 2082
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post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 01:17 AM
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My trusted brand ever I've been using is the Ams. Not advertising it but I'm just telling the truth. I've benn using it for almost five years.
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post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMOPAR85 View Post
I'm with ya on not changing what the OEM recommends. But, 5-20 to 0-20 not too big of a deal when running the 4.7.
Yea, I agree, especially if your going to use the AMSOIL top of the line that is GrpIV oil. Its only a guess, but I think most people would agree, using 0W-20 GrpIV is going to protect way better than using 5w-20 GrpII or even GrpIII.

Its just the folks that say things like;
"I've heard good things about that oil."
"I've used that oil in my past cars."
"Ferrari owners use 'X' oil, so I am too."
That kinda of uninformed decision making just irks me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMOPAR85 View Post
Also, I called Jeep and asked them if using Ams was ok in the transmission, they said it was fine since it is a sythetic. Although I didn't get it in writing.
That surprises me,

Although, I won't disagree with anyone that says AMSOIL's Synthetic ATF will work and protect your trans as well if NOT better than ATF+4.

The facts still are, AMSOIL Synthetic ATF is NOT on the list of approved ATF+4. And if its NOT on the list, you've violated the warranty using it.

I've seen several posts in mini-van forums that people who used AMSOIL Synthetic ATF in their 41TE trans got those trans to last 2-3 longer than most with regular fluid changes. Anyother trans fluid, other than ATF+4 in that trans, will result in a worn out trans within 30k miles. Heck, on average, if you don't change the fluid and just leave the factory fill ATF+4 in the mini-vans, that trans will die by 60k miles. ATF+4 was specifically developed to address the 41TE trans problems. And Chrysler did a big consalidation with a lot of their fluids, using ATF+4 for just about everything that it would work with, like manual trans, transfer cases, PS Systems and all the other Auto Trans. Which leads me to believe, the other Chrysler Trans, even if they use ATF+4, its NOT as critical as the 41TE, that ATF+4 was specifically designed for. Its anecadotal, but I think its a reasonable guess that the AMSOIL will probably live up to its claims. Although, its a fact it does NOT meet all the ATF+4 specs and thus can NOT be certified by Chrysler to be ATF+4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMOPAR85 View Post
Brake fluid I ended up using a vaccum and changed to DOT 4. Like you said when using brake fluid, I'm one to argue there is no such thing as a synthetic brake fluid. I will however, use what
Well, the checmicals they use in brake fluid would qualify as synthetic years before the Synthetic Craze, and they haven't changed. So, years ago, they could have advertise Brake Fluid as Synthetic, but no one would have cared. Now, some companies try to take advantage of consumer perceptions, and start calling their brake fluid synthetic, which they have every right to do so, its just people should realize, that its no different than any other brake fluid on the shelf, that doesn't advertise that's its synthetic.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you consider anti-freeze Synthetic? I don't think there is anything stopping an Anti-Freeze company as advertising their product as Synthetic, but it would still be the same old anti-freeze.

My 2010 OM says to use DOT3, the advantage of DOT3 or DOT4 is that it absorbs moisture much slower than DOT4 and last longer. So, if you don't need DOT4, why use a fluid that degrades faster. Check your OM, because they have changed some of the fluid recommendations over the years.

I wouldn't go back and change it back to DOT3 if that is what is called for, I'd just make sure you change it again in a year or two and use DOT3 next time if that is what is called for. i.e. the DOT4 will work just as well as the DOT3, its just the DOT4 will need to be changed sooner than the DOT3.

Look into Castrol GT/LMA, its the best of all worlds, a different base formulation, but its easier on the seals and parts, its boiling points exceed the highest points for DOT4 and DOT3, and it absorbs moisture much slower than DOT3. It only costs like 10%-20% more than other brake fluids. Only problem I've found with it, the stores in my area don't seem to carry it often, and I have to search for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMOPAR85 View Post
Chrysler reccomends in the Power Steering, so I shouldn't have said....everything. Thanks for the specifics it's much appreciated! All the information you spit out, your'e the creator All Data!
Yea, all the manufacturers keep upgrading their PS fluid specs every couple of years, adding coolers, etc and failed PS racks are pretty common. It all leads me to believe that PS can be pretty darn demanding on the fluid, use the wrong fluid could result in early failure. So, I tend to just stick the manufacturer recommended fluid, and won't go aftermarket until it specifically states it meets or exceeds the manufacturer spec for the fluid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenbarls View Post
My trusted brand ever I've been using is the Ams. Not advertising it but I'm just telling the truth. I've benn using it for almost five years.
Yea, I've heard lots of glowing endorsements of AMSOIL, but occassionally they make claims I know just can't be true, that is what sorta turned me off. The ATF+4 claim is an example. I tried their Manaul trans fluid in my Neon R/T, and it shifted a lot better than the OEM and Redline Fluid I had used in the past.

I've been using their fluids for the last couple of years, as appropraite, still use Mobil1 in the 5 qt Jugs from Walmart. You just can't beat that performance/cost ratio when you buy that jug of Mobil1 at Walmart.


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Last edited by Mongo; 02-25-2011 at 12:37 PM.
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