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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-05-2011, 11:16 PM Thread Starter
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Changed coolant, now engine overheats

Has anyone had this happen? The patient: 2006 XK Limited with the 4.7 and 85K highway miles in need of an oil change, tire rotation and coolant replacement. Nothing wrong beforehand. Just previously to starting the coolant change I did an oil change. So far, super dooper.

The medicine: two gallons of Zerex G-05, two bottles of Prestone Superflush and 2.5 gallons of distilled water. I followed the instructions on the Prestone bottle, however, when I got to the step that calls for the temp selectors to full hot, no hot air came out. Funny that... my mom gets chilled easily and she keeps the car hot nearly all the time. The heater was working or I would have heard about it immediately.

Did the flush, the rinse and still no hot air. What's more, I was short about one gallon of old fluid. Try as I might, the Jeep wouldn't give it up. OK, I'll just go to 70% coolant:water ratio (the max recommended) to keep the old fluid from from weakening the mix I was pouring in. Buttoned everything up and headed for a spin around the block to get everything mixed well. I kept the heater dialed to fully hot (manual mode, not Auto) but still no hot air. I'm one block away and the temp needle pegs, the computer chimes and says to check the gauges. Crap! I turned right around and headed home.

The fix (or so I thought): Hmm... maybe the computer is telling something in the cooling system to stay zigging when it should be zagging. I disconnected the negative lead and went inside for pizza and lemonade. Half hour later I re-connected the battery and tried the drive around the block again. This time I made it two blocks before I had to get back with the temp needle pegged. I noticed that the previously full reservoir bottle is now empty, so I filled it with the 70% mix I had left over, let the engine cool for about an hour and tried the drive one more time. Made it half a block. Popped the hood and the reservoir bottle was full and stayed full even after the engine cooled down. I double checked for leaks and had previously checked the radiator cap for serviceability. It all checks out.

What do you guys think is wrong? What else can I try before I have to get this thing towed to the dealer? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-05-2011, 11:27 PM
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Thermostat ?

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2011, 01:26 AM
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Could be the thermostat it has the symptoms. But considering what you did you probably have air in the system. You can pull the thermostat and stick in a pot on the stove to check if its still working but I'm going to bet it's air.


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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2011, 01:28 AM
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REFILLING COOLING SYSTEM


3.7L

1. Tighten the radiator draincock and the cylinder block drain plug(s) (if removed).
CAUTION: Failure to purge air from the cooling system can result in an overheating condition and severe engine damage.


2. Fill cooling system with the antifreeze mixture (Refer to LUBRICATION & MAINTENANCE/FLUID TYPES - DESCRIPTION). Fill pressure bottle to service line and install cap.
NOTE: The engine cooling system will push any remaining air into the coolant bottle within about an hour of normal driving. As a result, a drop in coolant level in the pressure bottle may occur. If the engine cooling system overheats and pushes coolant into the overflow side of the coolant bottle, this coolant will be sucked back into the cooling system ONLY IF THE PRESSURE CAP IS LEFT ON THE BOTTLE. Removing the pressure cap breaks the vacuum path between the two bottle sections and the coolant will not return to cooling system.


3. With heater control unit in the HEAT position, operate engine with pressure bottle cap in place.
4. Add coolant to pressure bottle as necessary. Only add coolant to the pressure bottle when the engine is cold. Coolant level in a warm engine will be higher due to thermal expansion.

4.7L





1. Tighten the radiator draincock and the cylinder block drain plug(s) (if removed).
CAUTION: Failure to purge air from the cooling system can result in an overheating condition and severe engine damage.


2. Remove the cooling system bleed plug from the radiator upper hose inlet housing. Fill cooling system with the antifreeze mixture (Refer to LUBRICATION & MAINTENANCE/FLUID TYPES - DESCRIPTION), until coolant begins coming out of the cooling system bleed hole. Install the cooling system bleed plug. Fill radiator to top and install radiator cap. Add sufficient coolant to the reserve/overflow tank to raise level to FULL mark.
3. With heater control unit in the HEAT position, operate engine with radiator cap in place.
4. After engine has reached normal operating temperature, shut engine off and allow it to cool. When engine is cooling down, coolant will be drawn into the radiator from the reserve/overflow tank.
5. Add coolant to reserve/overflow tank as necessary. Only add coolant to the reserve/overflow tank when the engine is cold. Coolant level in a warm engine will be higher due to thermal expansion. To purge the cooling system of all air, this heat up/cool down cycle (adding coolant to cold engine) must be performed three times. Add necessary coolant to raise tank level to the FULL mark after each cool down period.

5.7L

1. Close radiator draincock. Hand tighten only.
2. Install engine block drain plugs, if removed. Coat the threads with Mopar® Thread Sealant with Teflon.
WARNING: When installing drain hose to air bleed valve, route hose away from accessory drive belts, accessory drive pulleys, and electric cooling fan motors.

NOTE: It may be necessary to install a bleed fitting on the 5.7L engine.


3. Attach a 1.5 - 2 m (4 - 6 ft.) long 6 mm (1/4 inch.) ID clear hose to bleeder fitting
Plug Location (5.7L): Located on the front of the water outlet housing at the front of engine.

4. Route hose away from the accessory drive belt, drive pulleys and electric cooling fan. Place the other end of hose into a clean container. The hose will prevent coolant from contacting the accessory drive belt when bleeding the system during the refilling operation.
NOTE: It is imperative that the cooling system air bleed valve be opened before any coolant is added to the cooling system. Failure to open the bleed valve first will result in an incomplete fill of the system.


5. 5.7L ENGINE - Install a threaded and barbed fitting (1/4 - 18 npt) into water pump housing.
6. Attach Filling Aid Funnel Tool 8195 to pressure bottle filler neck.
7. Using hose pinch-off pliers, pinch overflow hose that connects between the two chambers of the coolant bottle (2).
8. Open bleed fitting.
9. Pour the coolant (Refer to LUBRICATION & MAINTENANCE/FLUID TYPES - DESCRIPTION) into the larger section of Filling Aid Funnel (the smaller section of funnel is to allow air to escape).
10. Slowly fill the cooling system until a steady stream of coolant flows from the hose attached to the bleed valve.
11. Close the bleed valve and continue filling system to the top of the Filling Aid Funnel Tool 8195.
12. Remove pinch-off pliers from overflow hose.
13. Allow the coolant in Filling Funnel to drain into overflow chamber of the pressure bottle.
14. Remove Filling Aid Funnel Tool 8195. Install cap on coolant pressure bottle.
15. Remove hose from bleed valve.
16. Install fitting into thermostat housing. Coat the threads with Mopar® Thread Sealant with Teflon.
17. Start engine and run at 1500 - 2000 RPM for 30 minutes.
NOTE: The engine cooling system will push any remaining air into the coolant bottle within about an hour of normal driving. As a result, a drop in coolant level in the pressure bottle may occur. If the engine cooling system overheats and pushes coolant into the overflow side of the coolant bottle, this coolant will be sucked back into the cooling system ONLY IF THE PRESSURE CAP IS LEFT ON THE BOTTLE. Removing the pressure cap breaks the vacuum path between the two bottle sections and the coolant will not return to cooling system.


18. Shut off engine allow it to cool down for 30 minutes. This permits coolant to be drawn into the pressure chamber.
19. With engine COLD, observe coolant level in pressure chamber. Coolant level should be within MIN and MAX marks. Adjust coolant level as necessary.


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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2011, 07:51 AM
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100% air in the system.

It's a bit more complicated than just draining/filling. Sal posted some good instructions above... saved me some typing.

-Matt
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2011, 11:17 AM
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The Heater Core is higher than the engine in the Cooling System, Low Coolant Level, no coolant will circulate through the heater core, thus no heat.

When you refilled, likely air got trapped in the cooling system and you did NOT fill the system entirely. That would cause the overheat, the thermostat won't open if its NOT touching coolant. Even if it does open, you'll overheat if there is NOT enough coolant to circulate.

Have gone back and checked the coolant level below the Pressure Cap? Make sure the motor is cold, open the pressure cap, if its low, add fluid.

I haven't changed out my Commanders Coolant yet, but in other vehicles, I typically fill with coolant, run the motor a few minutes, rev it; before it gets warm, I shut it off and open the pressure cap again and add more coolant, and it usually needs a good amount. The later coolant systems seem to trap a lot of air when filling it.

If there is NO evidence of problems with the coolant system, no deposits, etc; there is no reason to use the chemical flushes, just flush with fresh water. Those chemicals shouldn't create a problem, BUT, if some remains behind they can affect the seals on the water pump, etc.


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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2011, 11:44 AM
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In newer vehicles, it is very common to have air in the system after changing fluid. At the shop when we install a new radiator, sometimes it can be a real bear to get all the air out. Also, I dont know the specs on the coolant that is recommended for the XK, but we stock coolant for different makes that we get from the dealers. You have to make sure you use the correct coolant for your application. Some coolants are red, some green, but there are differences in the coolants other than just the colors. I don't know that you did or did not use the correct coolant, that is for you to check, but I would bet that you have air pockets in the system.

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-07-2011, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAL View Post
REFILLING COOLING SYSTEM


3.7L

1. Tighten the radiator draincock and the cylinder block drain plug(s) (if removed).
CAUTION: Failure to purge air from the cooling system can result in an overheating condition and severe engine damage.


2. Fill cooling system with the antifreeze mixture (Refer to LUBRICATION & MAINTENANCE/FLUID TYPES - DESCRIPTION). Fill pressure bottle to service line and install cap.
NOTE: The engine cooling system will push any remaining air into the coolant bottle within about an hour of normal driving. As a result, a drop in coolant level in the pressure bottle may occur. If the engine cooling system overheats and pushes coolant into the overflow side of the coolant bottle, this coolant will be sucked back into the cooling system ONLY IF THE PRESSURE CAP IS LEFT ON THE BOTTLE. Removing the pressure cap breaks the vacuum path between the two bottle sections and the coolant will not return to cooling system.


3. With heater control unit in the HEAT position, operate engine with pressure bottle cap in place.
4. Add coolant to pressure bottle as necessary. Only add coolant to the pressure bottle when the engine is cold. Coolant level in a warm engine will be higher due to thermal expansion.

4.7L





1. Tighten the radiator draincock and the cylinder block drain plug(s) (if removed).
CAUTION: Failure to purge air from the cooling system can result in an overheating condition and severe engine damage.


2. Remove the cooling system bleed plug from the radiator upper hose inlet housing. Fill cooling system with the antifreeze mixture (Refer to LUBRICATION & MAINTENANCE/FLUID TYPES - DESCRIPTION), until coolant begins coming out of the cooling system bleed hole. Install the cooling system bleed plug. Fill radiator to top and install radiator cap. Add sufficient coolant to the reserve/overflow tank to raise level to FULL mark.
3. With heater control unit in the HEAT position, operate engine with radiator cap in place.
4. After engine has reached normal operating temperature, shut engine off and allow it to cool. When engine is cooling down, coolant will be drawn into the radiator from the reserve/overflow tank.
5. Add coolant to reserve/overflow tank as necessary. Only add coolant to the reserve/overflow tank when the engine is cold. Coolant level in a warm engine will be higher due to thermal expansion. To purge the cooling system of all air, this heat up/cool down cycle (adding coolant to cold engine) must be performed three times. Add necessary coolant to raise tank level to the FULL mark after each cool down period.

5.7L

1. Close radiator draincock. Hand tighten only.
2. Install engine block drain plugs, if removed. Coat the threads with Mopar® Thread Sealant with Teflon.
WARNING: When installing drain hose to air bleed valve, route hose away from accessory drive belts, accessory drive pulleys, and electric cooling fan motors.

NOTE: It may be necessary to install a bleed fitting on the 5.7L engine.


3. Attach a 1.5 - 2 m (4 - 6 ft.) long 6 mm (1/4 inch.) ID clear hose to bleeder fitting
Plug Location (5.7L): Located on the front of the water outlet housing at the front of engine.

4. Route hose away from the accessory drive belt, drive pulleys and electric cooling fan. Place the other end of hose into a clean container. The hose will prevent coolant from contacting the accessory drive belt when bleeding the system during the refilling operation.
NOTE: It is imperative that the cooling system air bleed valve be opened before any coolant is added to the cooling system. Failure to open the bleed valve first will result in an incomplete fill of the system.


5. 5.7L ENGINE - Install a threaded and barbed fitting (1/4 - 18 npt) into water pump housing.
6. Attach Filling Aid Funnel Tool 8195 to pressure bottle filler neck.
7. Using hose pinch-off pliers, pinch overflow hose that connects between the two chambers of the coolant bottle (2).
8. Open bleed fitting.
9. Pour the coolant (Refer to LUBRICATION & MAINTENANCE/FLUID TYPES - DESCRIPTION) into the larger section of Filling Aid Funnel (the smaller section of funnel is to allow air to escape).
10. Slowly fill the cooling system until a steady stream of coolant flows from the hose attached to the bleed valve.
11. Close the bleed valve and continue filling system to the top of the Filling Aid Funnel Tool 8195.
12. Remove pinch-off pliers from overflow hose.
13. Allow the coolant in Filling Funnel to drain into overflow chamber of the pressure bottle.
14. Remove Filling Aid Funnel Tool 8195. Install cap on coolant pressure bottle.
15. Remove hose from bleed valve.
16. Install fitting into thermostat housing. Coat the threads with Mopar® Thread Sealant with Teflon.
17. Start engine and run at 1500 - 2000 RPM for 30 minutes.
NOTE: The engine cooling system will push any remaining air into the coolant bottle within about an hour of normal driving. As a result, a drop in coolant level in the pressure bottle may occur. If the engine cooling system overheats and pushes coolant into the overflow side of the coolant bottle, this coolant will be sucked back into the cooling system ONLY IF THE PRESSURE CAP IS LEFT ON THE BOTTLE. Removing the pressure cap breaks the vacuum path between the two bottle sections and the coolant will not return to cooling system.


18. Shut off engine allow it to cool down for 30 minutes. This permits coolant to be drawn into the pressure chamber.
19. With engine COLD, observe coolant level in pressure chamber. Coolant level should be within MIN and MAX marks. Adjust coolant level as necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_ View Post
100% air in the system.

It's a bit more complicated than just draining/filling. Sal posted some good instructions above... saved me some typing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
The Heater Core is higher than the engine in the Cooling System, Low Coolant Level, no coolant will circulate through the heater core, thus no heat.

When you refilled, likely air got trapped in the cooling system and you did NOT fill the system entirely. That would cause the overheat, the thermostat won't open if its NOT touching coolant. Even if it does open, you'll overheat if there is NOT enough coolant to circulate.

Have gone back and checked the coolant level below the Pressure Cap? Make sure the motor is cold, open the pressure cap, if its low, add fluid.

I haven't changed out my Commanders Coolant yet, but in other vehicles, I typically fill with coolant, run the motor a few minutes, rev it; before it gets warm, I shut it off and open the pressure cap again and add more coolant, and it usually needs a good amount. The later coolant systems seem to trap a lot of air when filling it.

If there is NO evidence of problems with the coolant system, no deposits, etc; there is no reason to use the chemical flushes, just flush with fresh water. Those chemicals shouldn't create a problem, BUT, if some remains behind they can affect the seals on the water pump, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty1970 View Post
In newer vehicles, it is very common to have air in the system after changing fluid. At the shop when we install a new radiator, sometimes it can be a real bear to get all the air out. Also, I dont know the specs on the coolant that is recommended for the XK, but we stock coolant for different makes that we get from the dealers. You have to make sure you use the correct coolant for your application. Some coolants are red, some green, but there are differences in the coolants other than just the colors. I don't know that you did or did not use the correct coolant, that is for you to check, but I would bet that you have air pockets in the system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep5253 View Post
Thermostat ?

Gentlemen, she's alive! It turns out to have been a massive air bubble. Once I purged that, the heater cranked right up (on point as always, Matt and Mongo) and the temp stayed well within the green zone. Mongo, as it turned out, the Prestone stuff was confined to the radiator by the air bubble, and after I did the flushes it never circulated into the block. Sal, that write-up with the diagram was indispensable. Smitty, the Zerex G-05 is the approved stuff for the XK. It's orange and it ran me $13.29 per gallon at Napa. BTW, that stuff isn't easy to find. I made sure to tell the the Napa guy to keep it stocked because he's just about the only game in town. Jeep5253, I slapped my forehead when I read your post; thank goodness it was an easy fix, though. Thanks to everyone of you for helping me out You all came through for this noob yet again. Lesson learned.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-07-2011, 09:03 AM
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Yes, Zerex G-05 is a HOAT anti-freeze and the only aftermarket equivalent that I am aware of for the Chrysler HOAT anti-freeze. It color is different than the Chrysler HOAT (remember its just dye and many aftermarket anti-freezes have different colors than the OEM). The Latest G-05 I've gotten is more clear to yellow, it only look orange after its been in the vehicle a while. I have used Zerex G-05 in Chrysler Vehicles that call for HOAT for almost a decade and have NOT run into problems.

Yea, Prestone has been sued several times and lost, but they still keep putting "All Makes, All Models, Mixes with any color Anti-Freeze" on their Jug. They've been sued by their competition in trade market courts, I haven't heard of class action suite suing for damages yet. So they are ignoring the court I guess, but the courts have said the can NOT substiante the claims they make on the Jug.

Read the ingredients on the bottle, the Prestone "All Makes, All Models, Mixes with Any Color Anti-Freeze" is DexCool. Granted the later formulations of Dexcool, did solve a lot of the initial problems that we still hear about today, but Dexcool still has a lot of drawbacks and incompatibilities with other fluids and seals in older vehicles, maybe even a few seals in newer non-GM vehicles. I would NOT use the Prestone stuff ever, for any reason, in fact, the earlier Green IAT anti-freeze would be preferable, usually labeled as "Original Green Formula" and you'll find Phosphats and Silicates in the ingredients.

HOAT (Zerex G-05) will mix fine with the Original Green Formula, BUT, its NOT recommended, mostly because the original green only has a life of 2 years and the only safe to do if you add the Green stuff is to change the coolant within the lifespan of the shorter of the two.

There is always the argument the water pumps are designed with a specific anti-freeze in mind, and thus the OEM recommended fluid is always the best one to use.

If you do some research, you'll find the Original Green Formula really is the best anti-freeze to use. You just have to use "distilled or de-mineralized" Water to mix with it and change it every 2 years.

And that was the problem, very few people changed their coolant, and if they did, they used tap water full of minerals disolved in it. And around 3 years later they all had cooling system problems. That is why all the manufacturers came up with a long life anti-freeze that doesn't protect as well, but at least it protected for 5 years and would mix better with hard tap water, so in the long run it protected vehicles that were neglected by ignorant owners better than the original green that was a better anti-freeze, which unfortunately is the case for most vehicles.


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Last edited by Mongo; 03-07-2011 at 09:07 AM.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 09:44 AM
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Air bubble issue in radiator coolant circulation

So I just had same issue. Drain and flushed radiator coolant. Tried re-filling but only able to get 1/2 of fluid back in before starts over flowing from pressure cap. Start engine up, starts to overheat and can tell the fluid is not circulating as no heat is coming from the vents when I turn them on. So now, I cycle it by turning on engine for few minutes, let it heat up, turn off, let it cool down to hopefully draw some of the fluid in the reservoir to the radiator as it cools down. It seems to be working but very slow process.

Question: With the air bubble in system somewhere, as I have engine running and warming up trying to get fluid to circulate, I'm getting back pressure and a steady stream of air bubbles pushed back into my reservoir as engine is running. Is this what is supposed to happen? Is this allowing the system to purge out the air bubble problem? thanks.
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