No Power Steering, still made it 800 miles. - Jeep Commander Forums: Jeep Commander Forum
Regular Service / Maintenance This section contains discussion about regular service and maintenance (upkeep) of your Jeep Commander

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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-29-2014, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NY
Own a Commander?: Yes
Model year: 2008
Trim Package: Sport
Power-Train: 4.7L V-8
4WD
If 4WD - system: QT-II
Current Mileage: 160000
Posts: 181
No Power Steering, still made it 800 miles.

Need your help once again guys!
A few days ago I started a long drive from NY to Keesler AFB in Mississippi for training. I was staying a few days in NC with a friend to break the trip up and about 30 mins out from his house I lost all power steering. I manged to make it there and the following day I tried adding Power Steering fluid only to realize it was leaking everywhere. (passenger side only)
Not being very mechanically inclined I took it to Firestone to have them check it out. The tech there said where the high pressure hose goes into the rack (at least that's what i think it is) is where the leak is. they tried taking it off, adding a new o ring but it still kept leaking. This was on a sunday and they said they couldn't get a new hose until monday (from the dealer) and they might even have to get a new rack and pinion? they quoted me like $1300!!

This is where it gets interesting. I absolutely had to be in MS on monday. I didn't want to pay 1300 for those parts to be replaced considering from what i looked up the rack and pinion should run me about $300-400, and the hose about $50. I read somewhere you could drive with no power steering and there shouldn't be and ill effects on the vehicle other than it being a PITA to steer. Well, long story the jeep made it to MS. lol. I kept adding fluid along the way but it leaks out almost instantly so I don't think it helped. After looking into it a bit more I think I may have burnt the pump out.

Oh, And on top of that about an hour out from Keesler the "Service 4wd System" error came up. not sure if its even related to this.

So now that you have the back story here are my questions,
-Do you think I should just replace the hose, and see if that fixes it?
-Do you think I should get a new pump because I most definitely burnt mine up?
-If i have to get a new Rack and Pinion, Is this something I could replace myself? ( they do have a place on base where you can work on your car. I might even be able to bribe someone there with beer to help me out.
-Also, I'm still looking but can't seem to find the factory service manual for my jeep. Does any one have a link where I could download it?

I'm still looking into the parts and what i'm getting into but would really like your 2 cents on my situation. (how screwed am I?) any advice or info would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks guys!!!!!!

2008 Commander, 4.7 QTII

Last edited by chaotic; 10-29-2014 at 08:32 PM.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-29-2014, 01:27 PM
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Does your Commander have the hydrualic motor driven Cooling Fan? I think only the Hemi has it. If you do have the hydrualic fan, which is driven off the PS pump, you might have additional problems. I doubt it, you likely would have expereinced overheating if you did have it, cause it would NOT run without PS fluid, and like I said, I'm pretty sure only the Hemi has it.

The PS pump is likely damaged, and it may have circulated all sorts of debri through the PS system that will damage new components. When you open the lines or drain any PS fluid, look for glitter or metal particles in the PS fluid. If you have it, you have it, you need to flush all the lines and cooler, the rack and replace the PS pump.

You can do this one step at a time, and hope each step works, if NOT move on to the next.

Get a new PS high pressure line and replace it. See if that fixes the leak, if it does NOT, then you'll have to replace the PS Rack. Replacing the PS Rack will require a front end alignment, most auto-hobby shops can't do that for you, you'll have to take it to someone. If the PS pump is NOT making noise, and provides adequate pressure (i.e. you can turn the wheel with the same amount of effort as before) it likely is still good or at least will last you a little while longer.

Hopefully someone at the auto-hobby shop or in your unit can help. These are NOT difficult jobs, but if you're NOT mechanically inclined and have no experience working on cars, you'll likely have quite a challenge doing this.

The FSM is sold by Chrysler and costs at least $106, probably more now. There may be some pirated copies floating around the internet, I've never found them. There is NO chilton's or haynes manual for the Commander, but they have them for the Grand Cherokee, and the Grand Cherokee and Commander are very, very similiar in their mechanics, so you can pick up a manual for the Grand Cherokee of close to the same year, it should serve you well for a PS repair.


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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-29-2014, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NY
Own a Commander?: Yes
Model year: 2008
Trim Package: Sport
Power-Train: 4.7L V-8
4WD
If 4WD - system: QT-II
Current Mileage: 160000
Posts: 181
Thank you so much for the info Mongo! your always very quick to help out members here! Ill see who I can find around here and hopefully start working on it this Saturday. I'll let ya know how it goes.

Thanks Again!

2008 Commander, 4.7 QTII
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-30-2014, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NY
Own a Commander?: Yes
Model year: 2008
Trim Package: Sport
Power-Train: 4.7L V-8
4WD
If 4WD - system: QT-II
Current Mileage: 160000
Posts: 181
Question

Would this be the Manual I'm looking for?
http://www.jeepfsm.com/jeep_commande...e_manuals.html

And has anyone had experience with this site? $13 seems to good to be true for a soft copy of the repair manual.
Thanks!

2008 Commander, 4.7 QTII
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-30-2014, 01:48 PM
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No, that looks like the pirated dealer electronic manual that has been floating around the internet for free. More than a few unscrupulous people have been selling what they download for free, and this looks like it "might" be one.

The 2007 FSM in .html format requires a much earlier version of Internet Explorer, you'll go through hell trying to figure out how to get the latest IE into compatibility mode to try to get it to work.

Honestly, I think you might be better off just getting a WK (2004?-1010 Grand Cherokee) Chiltons manual.


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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-30-2014, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NY
Own a Commander?: Yes
Model year: 2008
Trim Package: Sport
Power-Train: 4.7L V-8
4WD
If 4WD - system: QT-II
Current Mileage: 160000
Posts: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
No, that looks like the pirated dealer electronic manual that has been floating around the internet for free. More than a few unscrupulous people have been selling what they download for free, and this looks like it "might" be one.

The 2007 FSM in .html format requires a much earlier version of Internet Explorer, you'll go through hell trying to figure out how to get the latest IE into compatibility mode to try to get it to work.

Honestly, I think you might be better off just getting a WK (2004?-1010 Grand Cherokee) Chiltons manual.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll pick up one today. Hopefully the PS setup doesn't differ too much.

2008 Commander, 4.7 QTII
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-30-2014, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NY
Own a Commander?: Yes
Model year: 2008
Trim Package: Sport
Power-Train: 4.7L V-8
4WD
If 4WD - system: QT-II
Current Mileage: 160000
Posts: 181
Bummer, the haynes manual only show removal of the pump and how to bleed the system. I'll keep looking for the instructions but I might have to break down and take it to a shop. At the very least I might be able to buy the parts myself and just pay for labor?

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-30-2014, 08:21 PM
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4WD
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From the Factory Service Manual:

REMOVAL

4.7L
The water pump on 4.7L engines is bolted directly to
the engine timing chain case/cover.

A gasket is used as a seal between the water pump
and timing chain case/cover.

The water pump can be removed without discharging
the air conditioning system (if equipped).
1. Disconnect negative battery cable from battery.
2. Drain cooling system (Refer to 7 - COOLING -
STANDARD PROCEDURE). Do not waste reusable
coolant. If solution is clean, drain coolant into a
clean container for reuse.

WARNING: Constant tension hose clamps are
used on most cooling system hoses. When removing
or installing, use only tools designed for servicing
this type of clamp, such as tool 6094.
Always wear safety glasses when servicing constant
tension clamps.


CAUTION: A number or letter is stamped into the tongue of constant tension clamps. If replacement is necessary,
use only an original equipment clamp with matching number or letter.


3. Remove accessory drive belt (Refer to 7 - COOLING/ACCESSORY DRIVE/DRIVE BELTS - REMOVAL).
4. Remove lower radiator hose clamp and remove lower hose at water pump.
5. Remove seven water pump mounting bolts and one stud bolt.

CAUTION: Do not pry water pump at timing chain case/cover. The machined surfaces may be damaged
resulting in leaks
.

6. Remove water pump and gasket. Discard gasket.




INSTALLATION

4.7L

1. Clean gasket mating surfaces.
2. Using a new gasket, position water pump and
install mounting bolts as shown.. Tighten water
pump mounting bolts to 58 Nm (43 ft. lbs.) torque.
3. Spin water pump to be sure that pump impeller
does not rub against timing chain case/cover.
4. Connect radiator lower hose to water pump.
5. Install accessory drive belt (Refer to 7 - COOLING/
ACCESSORY DRIVE/DRIVE BELTS - INSTALLATION).

CAUTION: When installing the serpentine accessory
drive belt, belt must be routed correctly. If
not, engine may overheat due to water pump rotating
in wrong direction.


6. Refill cooling system (Refer to 7 - COOLING -
STANDARD PROCEDURE).
7. Connect negative battery cable.
8. Start and warm the engine. Check for leaks.

2006 Steel Blue 5.7L HEMI Limited 4x4 Build Date: June 9, 2006 Hour 14
Interior: Dark Slate/Light Graystone with Saddle Brown Leather Seats
Quadra-Drive II, NAV, DVD, Trailer Tow Group IV, Off-Road Group II, Remote Start, UConnect, Rear Backup Camera, Chrome Wheels,
Magnaflow cat-back exhaust, Daytime Running Lights enabled, 2" Rough Country Lift with 265/70R17 Goodyear Wrangler AT/S

Last edited by jeep5253; 10-30-2014 at 08:31 PM.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-05-2014, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NY
Own a Commander?: Yes
Model year: 2008
Trim Package: Sport
Power-Train: 4.7L V-8
4WD
If 4WD - system: QT-II
Current Mileage: 160000
Posts: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep5253 View Post
From the Factory Service Manual:

REMOVAL

4.7L
The water pump on 4.7L engines is bolted directly to
the engine timing chain case/cover.

A gasket is used as a seal between the water pump
and timing chain case/cover.

The water pump can be removed without discharging
the air conditioning system (if equipped).
1. Disconnect negative battery cable from battery.
2. Drain cooling system (Refer to 7 - COOLING -
STANDARD PROCEDURE). Do not waste reusable
coolant. If solution is clean, drain coolant into a
clean container for reuse.

WARNING: Constant tension hose clamps are
used on most cooling system hoses. When removing
or installing, use only tools designed for servicing
this type of clamp, such as tool 6094.
Always wear safety glasses when servicing constant
tension clamps.


CAUTION: A number or letter is stamped into the tongue of constant tension clamps. If replacement is necessary,
use only an original equipment clamp with matching number or letter.


3. Remove accessory drive belt (Refer to 7 - COOLING/ACCESSORY DRIVE/DRIVE BELTS - REMOVAL).
4. Remove lower radiator hose clamp and remove lower hose at water pump.
5. Remove seven water pump mounting bolts and one stud bolt.

CAUTION: Do not pry water pump at timing chain case/cover. The machined surfaces may be damaged
resulting in leaks
.

6. Remove water pump and gasket. Discard gasket.




INSTALLATION

4.7L

1. Clean gasket mating surfaces.
2. Using a new gasket, position water pump and
install mounting bolts as shown.. Tighten water
pump mounting bolts to 58 Nm (43 ft. lbs.) torque.
3. Spin water pump to be sure that pump impeller
does not rub against timing chain case/cover.
4. Connect radiator lower hose to water pump.
5. Install accessory drive belt (Refer to 7 - COOLING/
ACCESSORY DRIVE/DRIVE BELTS - INSTALLATION).

CAUTION: When installing the serpentine accessory
drive belt, belt must be routed correctly. If
not, engine may overheat due to water pump rotating
in wrong direction.


6. Refill cooling system (Refer to 7 - COOLING -
STANDARD PROCEDURE).
7. Connect negative battery cable.
8. Start and warm the engine. Check for leaks.
Thanks Jeep5253! Is the "Water Pump" the same as the power steering pump as far as removal? Also is there anyway you could you post the instructions on the replacement of the power steering pressure hose? I'm going to try that first and then work from there.

Thanks for the help with this. Much appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!

2008 Commander, 4.7 QTII
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-05-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaotic View Post
Thanks Jeep5253! Is the "Water Pump" the same as the power steering pump as far as removal? Also is there anyway you could you post the instructions on the replacement of the power steering pressure hose? I'm going to try that first and then work from there.

Thanks for the help with this. Much appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!
No, the power steering pump is NOT anything like the water pump. Jeep5253 must have made a mistake and posted the wrong info or misunderstood the job you need to do.

Honestly, the PS pump is pretty easy, I'm very mechanically inclined and would have tackled that job without a manual or instructions when I was younger and inexperienced in such jobs, and I would NOT have had a problem. But, you said you were NOT very mechanically inclined, so this may be harder for you than me.


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