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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-11-2015, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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Angry Oil Change Issue

Ever since I purchased my Jeep I have taken it a local shop to have the oil changed. I recently got a coupon to use a local dealer but due to some issues with them I decided to do it myself. I stopped at the local auto store and purchased 7 quarts of Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w-20 oil and the Mobil 1 oil filter M1-204.

I let my engine cool and then pulled the plug and drained the oil. I then went looking for the filter. I found what looked to be the filter but it in no way "matched" the size of the filter I had just purchased. Since I couldn't really see the filter I used my phone camera to take a picture of it and verify that it was indeed the filter. It was. I removed the filter and was really surprised at how small it was. I placed the new filter back on, screwed in the plug and filled it back with oil.

Everything seems fine with engine but I was concerned about this "weird" filter I took off. Since it took me by surprise I decided to do some research on it and I found that it never should have been placed on my Jeep! Every site I go to says this filter will NOT fit the Jeep I own. I was VERY overdue for my oil change and I'm glad I got it taken care of but is there anything I should be worried about considering I had this small, crappy filter on my Jeep? It was a ProMotive PH195... I'm VERY disappointed in my oil change shop and I will be letting them know about it.

Krista Wallis - 2006 Jeep Commander Limited Hemi 5.7L V-8
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-11-2015, 01:09 PM
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I wonder if they were not using 5-20? Was your gas mileage low, like 16 or less highway? If not 5-20 the MDS may not kick in to save gas. I wouldn't worry about the wrong filter - not good, but should not have caused harm. I always change my own oil and filter, I don't trust anyone except myself for an oil change. The filter on the Hemi is a little fun to change but the 16 plugs are even more fun to change.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-11-2015, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks! I'm not sure what oil they used but after reading up on this forum yesterday I decided to do it myself from now one :-) Like I posted earlier I went with Mobil 1 and with the high miles on my engine I want to keep it healthy and running for as long as I can.

My gas mileage is HORRIFIC. I never get more than 14.7 average, even on highway road trips. I can practically sit and watch the dial go down, down, down. I have hopes they may have used the wrong oil and that this time the proper oil will make a positive difference in that!

Krista Wallis - 2006 Jeep Commander Limited Hemi 5.7L V-8
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-11-2015, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krwallis View Post
Thanks! I'm not sure what oil they used but after reading up on this forum yesterday I decided to do it myself from now one :-) Like I posted earlier I went with Mobil 1 and with the high miles on my engine I want to keep it healthy and running for as long as I can.

My gas mileage is HORRIFIC. I never get more than 14.7 average, even on highway road trips. I can practically sit and watch the dial go down, down, down. I have hopes they may have used the wrong oil and that this time the proper oil will make a positive difference in that!
Just found out they used 5w-30 instead of 20... Grrrr!

Krista Wallis - 2006 Jeep Commander Limited Hemi 5.7L V-8
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-11-2015, 02:12 PM
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On this website it shows the ProMotive is a replacement for both the OEM Mopar and the Mobil 1 filters. You're OK for the filter.

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-11-2015, 03:52 PM
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Speaking of oil changes; has anyone gone to a system like the truckers use which only replaces the element of the bypass filter and adds oil as needed but does not require regular oil change?

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-12-2015, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krwallis View Post
Just found out they used 5w-30 instead of 20... Grrrr!
If you want to see when the MDS is active see this post on how to add a LED that lights up when MDS is active. Posts 45 up.
https://www.jeepcommander.com/forums/...mds+led&page=5
Also new spark plugs can help gas mileage.

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Past -89 Comanche, 98 Grand Cherokee (2WD), 2000 Cherokee, 05 Grand Cherokee Limited 4.7
Had to replace the brakes - they opened more gas stations in town
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-12-2015, 11:09 AM
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The oil filter that was installed on your commander was of the type that is typically used at quickie oil change places. These manufacturers make filters that fit a wide range of vehicles and so that they do not have to inventory so many different filters. That filter fits many vehicles that the stock filter type will not and that is why it looks so small. It is definitely an inferior filter to the stock sized filter IMHO. When I purchased my Commander it also had one of those small filters on it. Did it cause any harm? I doubt it.

Dan
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-14-2015, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepJorge View Post
Speaking of oil changes; has anyone gone to a system like the truckers use which only replaces the element of the bypass filter and adds oil as needed but does not require regular oil change?
The engine oil gets contaminated and breaks down with use, it needs to be changed regularly. Of course filter out the dirt it collects is a big part of preventing engine damage, but I can't imagine filtering doing anything to extend the life of your oil.

Only two ways I'm aware of extending your oil changes, without hurting your motor. Keep in mind, the design of the motor will dictate the viscosity of the oil and the oil change interval, i.e. older, cheaper motor designs used thicker oil and required it changed more often compared to newer, more sophisticated and cleaner motor designs.

1.) Use a higher quality oil (like Grp III Synthetic or even more life with Grp IV Synthetic).
2.) Use some type of monitoring system, either software in PCM monitoring usage of the motor OR oil analysis, etc. To warn when the oil needs to be changed. (without a monitoring system, people often change their oil too early, to avoid the risk of running on contaminated/broken down oil.

So, what I suspect (I could be wrong) you're talking about is big fleets of large expensive trucks that it is worth the investment of a more sophisticated multi-filter oil system that is supported by the Fleet's Maintenance and Monitoring. And likely they use a superior oil that out lasts the filter and thus they monitor the oil and change the different filter elements periodically. In the long run with a big "well managed" fleet, it saves them money.

If you visit AMSOIL website, you see they offer oils they claim will last a whole year or 36k miles or more in your engine. They recommend changing the filter several times during that 36k miles and topping off for the oil lost during the filter change. They also offer oil analysis services to periodically mail in a sample of the oil and they will email you back if they find anything bad in it or anything indicating its contaminated/breaking down and will need to be changed soon. (This sounds close to what you're talking about).

The most practical oil system for typical car owners, is the one installed on your Jeep's motor. I'd use it and follow the manufacturer's recommendation to the letter. If you're NOT a typical car owner and would like to do something else, by all means do so, look into the different systems that could be adapted to your vehicle, but follow the manufacturer's recommendation to the letter. AMSOIL is the only that comes to my mind.

Don't get the impression that because some big rig truck that has some sophisticated oil system, would work for your Commander. Putting a different oil handling system on your motor doesn't change the oil change interval, the motor and usage is still the same, and its the motor its wear and its usage that determines how quickly the oil gets contaminated and breaks down. Changing filters does very little to change the oil condition, I think what your getting backwards, if you use ultra-quality oil that resists contamination and breaking down much longer than conventional oil, you may have the filters collect enough dirt to start clogging, and you'll have to change filters before the oil.


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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-14-2015, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdalameda View Post
The oil filter that was installed on your commander was of the type that is typically used at quickie oil change places. These manufacturers make filters that fit a wide range of vehicles and so that they do not have to inventory so many different filters. That filter fits many vehicles that the stock filter type will not and that is why it looks so small. It is definitely an inferior filter to the stock sized filter IMHO. When I purchased my Commander it also had one of those small filters on it. Did it cause any harm? I doubt it.

Dan
Good point, oil filters have to fit within a certain space and also ground clearance that will be drastically different between different vehicles and engines. There may be 98 different size/shaped oil filters on the market, but there is probably only 9 different interfaces to the engine. Interface as in the thread size and seal size. There are cross-references for different filters that will fit one engine.

A good example, a Chrysler V-8 and I-4 both can have the same filter interface, but the V-8 they recommend a much larger filter with a bigger capacity to hold oil and more filtering surface area. The I-4 is a smaller filter. You can install the I-4 filter on the V8 and it will work without leaking, but the filter element is to small for what the engineers think is necessary for the I-4. Obviously the smaller filter of the same interface will fit more applications, than a larger filter of that interface. Obviously, if have the smallest peg possible, then it will fit all the holes, while larger pegs will run into holes they don't fit.

On the flip size, you can try to fit the V-8 oil filter to the I-4, cause having a bigger oil filter almost always is better as long as it fits. But the filter might NOT fit in the tighter space the smaller car with an I-4 has available. Or worse it might fit but extend below the lowest point on the vehicle, just waiting for the filter to contact some object on the road to be damaged and leak out all oil pressure and damage the motor.

Sounds like the shop krwallis was going to was a bit fast and loose with their customers cars. They kept their profit margin high, by keeping their costs low, and they did that by stocking a minimum number of filters and oil viscosities. Then they changed folks oil with supplies that were "close" to what was needed, NOT exactly what the manufacturer recommends. Clearly its best to use the recommended filter and oil, not a filter that "works" but is much smaller and intended for an I-4 and oil that is little thicker but close to what is recommended.

BTW, I doubt the engine and electronics can tell what viscosity the oil is and disable the MDS on the HEMI. Either one of two things happens, since the oil viscosity will effect how quickly the MDS responds when the valves or open and closed to cut-off or supply oil pressure to the valve cut-off devices, the MDS activation will change, but it will still activate. It may be a rougher activation, that might increase wear, make it more noticeable with more engine shutter, but it will keep working. OR perhaps the PCM will notice the MDS activation is not as smooth as it should be when it signals it to activate, and the PCM is programmed to disable MDS when it notices that reaction. (perhaps splitting hairs, if the end result is the same, but I highly, highly doubt the PCM has anyway of knowing if a mechanic pours 5W-30 into the motor instead of 5W-20).


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Last edited by Mongo; 09-14-2015 at 10:25 AM.
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