New tires / wheels = handling problems - Jeep Commander Forums: Jeep Commander Forum
Wheels / Tires This section contains discussion about wheels and tires for your Jeep Commander.

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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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New tires / wheels = handling problems

I've been driving myself nuts trying to pick out a set of rims and tires for my XK. I think I've figured out the backspacing / offset thing and how it will play out as far as looks (sticking out to or past the fender flare) and clearance. I have two main concerns and am wondering if anyone has experience with these. If you can post some advice, this guy would be greatful.

1. I read this excerpt on AEV's website and now it gives me some pause as far as handling goes..... "this is why you see Jeeps with the tires sticking out three inches past the flare. This may be OK in sunny southern California, but guys who live where it snows can be in for all sorts of white knuckle handling, not to mention a huge mess on the side of the car." AND "If you have a positive offset wheel stock, and decide to switch to a negative offset wheel, you’re scrub radius just increased drastically. What happens is one wheel travels in a forward arc, while the other travels in a rearward arc. You just changed your steering geometry to resemble a 150 year old wagon…and your Jeep will drive like it too.

Why would the tires sticking out a little further cause white knuckle handling in the snow? Has anyone had or willing to admit a bad reaction to handling when they changed wheels / tires? I don't want to have any big regrets in handling. I am looking at a -12 offset rim with 4.53" of backspacing.

2. I have read in some posts that putting a 255/70/17 or a 265/70/17 on a 17x9 rim could be unsafe as well as have undesired looks. Can anyone explain why this could be unsafe and how the looks would be affected?

Thanks for the help here - I think others would find this info useful too.

2006 Commander Limited, 5.7L HEMI, Quadra-Drive II, NAV, 2.25" Rocky Road Lift, AEV 17 x 8.5" Pintler Rims with +10mm offset, Goodyear Silent Armor 265/70/17's, 4xGuard Matrix and grill hoop, PIAA 525 dual beam auxiliary lights, K&N Cold Air Intake, Full skid plates, Tinted fronts, Rear hitch shackle, Yakima bike carrier, Thule Atlantis 1800 roof carrier.
Current Wish list: 4xGuard Front Skid Plate, Rear tire carrier?!?!


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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 11:52 AM
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Here is my advise. I toiled with the same issues and ultimately left up to Discount Tire Direct. I told them the tire size and they gave me a list of wheels to choose from. My truck rides and steers as it did before the change. 255/75-17 is the tire size now.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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TYMAC - what wheels did you end up going with? Do you know the offset / backspacing?

2006 Commander Limited, 5.7L HEMI, Quadra-Drive II, NAV, 2.25" Rocky Road Lift, AEV 17 x 8.5" Pintler Rims with +10mm offset, Goodyear Silent Armor 265/70/17's, 4xGuard Matrix and grill hoop, PIAA 525 dual beam auxiliary lights, K&N Cold Air Intake, Full skid plates, Tinted fronts, Rear hitch shackle, Yakima bike carrier, Thule Atlantis 1800 roof carrier.
Current Wish list: 4xGuard Front Skid Plate, Rear tire carrier?!?!


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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 01:32 PM
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OnATrail,

Take a look at our website. When you enter your year, make and model you will be shown wheels that fit your Jeep with stock suspension. (unless you enter a lifted application) These wheels will stay within your fenders and away from your suspension. You can also click on the tires tab once you have entered your year, make and model. This will show you the tire sizes that we recommend for your stock height Jeep. If you would like to speak with us, our sales and technical staff are always happy to help. We can tell you exactly how your wheels and tires will fit and can help you quickly browse your options. Give us a call. 1.888.459.4080.

-Travis

Last edited by Discount Tire; 03-31-2009 at 02:49 PM.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2009, 11:42 PM
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I did not notice any ill handling during the last snow storm that we had here, the Jeep was still sure footed, I have 17x9 wheels with a -12 offset and 265/70's monted on them. I kind of worry about the rocker panels getting sprayed with more gravel and what not so maybe 3M paint protectors maybe a good idea.

As for the looks my 265's arent quite as "stretched" as I thought they would be, some of it has to do with the sidewall design which helps the transition from tread to sidewall, I have noticed that with this particular tire (the Hannoks have a squared off shoulder) I have had to really reshape the fenderliners with a heat gun as said by others, and bend over the pinch weld. All in all not that difficult. But in no way does it steer like a 150 year old wagon but, it is different. Bumps are better. I stiil enjoy driving my Commander and I take pride in the rig she's become. Cant wait to go wheelin.
BTW Discount Tire Direct did treat me well!
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2007 Sport 4.7 liter Red Rock Crystal Pearlcoat
Old Man Emu HD-265/70/17

Last edited by NO MATTER; 04-01-2009 at 12:04 AM.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-01-2009, 06:53 AM
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Gentlemen, forgive my ingnorance here. I'm still a bit green with some of the 4x4 talk. I understand spacers and lifts, but I don't fully understand the "offset". I'm guessing it has something to do with how wide apart the front tires are compared to the rear?

Thanks...

2007 Overland, HEMI 4x4, QD II, rear DVD, Light Greystone Pearl, Wrangler SilentArmor 245/65R17

2011 Grand Cherokee Overland Summit, HEMI 4x2
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-01-2009, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemi-Overland View Post
Gentlemen, forgive my ingnorance here. I'm still a bit green with some of the 4x4 talk. I understand spacers and lifts, but I don't fully understand the "offset". I'm guessing it has something to do with how wide apart the front tires are compared to the rear?

Thanks...
No it has nothing to do with that.

It's hard to explain it but ill try to do my best.

The offest is the positive or negative movement of the mounting surface of the wheel either inward or outward of the center of the wheel. A wheel with 0 offset has the mounting surface of the wheel exactly in the dead center of the wheel. If it has positive offset the mounting surface starts to move towards the inside of the wheel. If its a negative offset the mounting surface moves to the outside of the wheel.

Not a lot of people know this but the offset of a wheel is already figured into the wheel backspacing and is sort of irrelevant. I didnt say its not important at all but you need to be more worried about the wheel back spacing. The back spacing of a wheel is the distance between the mounting surface of the wheel and the inside edge of the wheel. The stock back spacing is 6.5 inches on a 17x7.5 wheel. So in theory since he has a -12 offset wheel, which is equivalent to approx. 4.5 inches of backspacing, and his wheel is 1.5 inches wider then stock so it will sit out 3.5 inches over the stock setup.




2007 4.7 Liter XK | Front OME MD Springs w/Superlift Preload Spacer | Rear 4" Superlift Springs | Bilstein 5125 Rear Shocks | JBA UCA's | Rusty's Rear Adjustable Track Bar | Black Rock 997 Wheels | Fred Goeske 1/4 Inch Wheel Spacers | 305/70R17 Goodyear Wrangler MT/R w/Kevlar | Airflow Snorkel | Flowmaster 40 Series Muffler | Superchips Flashpaq | Mopar Skids | 4xGuard Belly Guard | American Rebel Rear Diff Cover | Rear Powertrax No-Slip | Front E-Locker | Rear Heat/AC Delete
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-01-2009, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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Here is a thread I did that has become a sticky. If you still have questions, please PM me and I will try to sort it out. There are some great calculators in the thread as well as one that you can input wheel size / tire size / offset and compare two sizes side by side with a nice visual that changes as you change parameters.

https://www.jeepcommander.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8575

2006 Commander Limited, 5.7L HEMI, Quadra-Drive II, NAV, 2.25" Rocky Road Lift, AEV 17 x 8.5" Pintler Rims with +10mm offset, Goodyear Silent Armor 265/70/17's, 4xGuard Matrix and grill hoop, PIAA 525 dual beam auxiliary lights, K&N Cold Air Intake, Full skid plates, Tinted fronts, Rear hitch shackle, Yakima bike carrier, Thule Atlantis 1800 roof carrier.
Current Wish list: 4xGuard Front Skid Plate, Rear tire carrier?!?!


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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-01-2009, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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Anyway, I am now split on the wheel / tire package after all of this. I photoshopped the wheels I was originally looking at onto a photo of my XK and I think I may scrap the idea of the ATX Artillery wheels. I am limited because I live in a snow / salt area and I'm not about to screw around with swapping wheels every season. That puts chrome out of the picture. The teflon coated rims I was looking at just don't look so hot on my XK in my opinion. I am now looking at the AEV 17x8.5 Pintler wheels in silver. They don't look that much different from the stock wheels though so I am now considering spacers....... I usually don't have a hard time making a decision but on this wheel / tire thing I feel wishy washy......

2006 Commander Limited, 5.7L HEMI, Quadra-Drive II, NAV, 2.25" Rocky Road Lift, AEV 17 x 8.5" Pintler Rims with +10mm offset, Goodyear Silent Armor 265/70/17's, 4xGuard Matrix and grill hoop, PIAA 525 dual beam auxiliary lights, K&N Cold Air Intake, Full skid plates, Tinted fronts, Rear hitch shackle, Yakima bike carrier, Thule Atlantis 1800 roof carrier.
Current Wish list: 4xGuard Front Skid Plate, Rear tire carrier?!?!


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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-01-2009, 09:24 AM
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My response will likely prove more confusing and I will try to simplify.
When changing offset, you are also changing Scrub Radius.
Yeah, I know....Whats that?
If we could look straight down on the front wheels, and turn them full left in this example, the wheels while moving forward must describe a different arc in their travel.
The left front must take a tighter path than the right front to turn without dragging either tire.
This is called the scrub radius and refers to the different path each wheel must take to achieve a turn without loosing traction (slight) through the turn.
I hope you're still with me.
Now, if we alter the centerline of the tire, relative the centerline of the spindle, (change offset), we are altering the scrub radius or the path that each wheel will take.
By doing this, we can introduce a tendancy to understeer, or cause the front end to wash out during a turn.
This would, of course, be most noticeable on snow/ice in street driving circumstances.
Most likely, never noticed off road due to low speeds, and since these aren't tearing around corners like a Vette, not too noticeable on dry turns either.
I might add that wheel spacers will have the same effect.
Increased offset will also cause more rapid wear of the front tires, in particular around town driving where more turns are called for.
Usually the increased wear will show on the outer shoulders of the tire.

Hope that helped a bit,
Rob


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