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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-23-2006, 12:48 AM Thread Starter
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not thinking about buying anymore

That's because we bought it! Last night. Commander that is. silver w/ grey inter. 4.7 v8, 1.73 ratio, base model with rear ac, off road pkg. I have had twinges of buyers remorse in the past but not one tiny bit w this one. Boy, has it got a nice ride, the power is sweet and it looks great especially when you're sitting in the drivers seat. I don't need to tell you other owners that but the newbies that don't have one yet might be interested. This is how the transaction went: our trade in: 2001 tj w 4" lift, 74000 miles, good condition.we owed $8500 .they started with these nos. They'll give us $9000 for the tj ( less than we expected) the invoice is 30,746.00 minus 2,000 .00rebates plus 500.00 over invoice plus 45.00 doc fees plus 2,425.00 tax. so $314908 is the price of the loan. 7.5% interest (ouch) 6 year loan w/ pymnts of $544.44 per month. No good for us. A 5year loan would be 6.29% $613.02 month or $500 month with $5800 down. No good. then they offered $2400.00 down 6yr at $500. month but we want extended warranty too so that would bring our pymnt up to approx $540 per month or $4500 down at $498. per month. No good. they said, Ok, how about we throw in the extended warranty. you give us $2000 down and the tj ( we'll give you $9400 for it) and you make $500.04 for 6 years. They also threw in 2 jeep key chains and 4 ski lift tickets. Well, that was it for us! Those shiny key chains did the trick. Then we go to the loan lady and we added the gap insurance and our final pymnt is $520.00 I think we did ok. I feel good about it. I can't believe how much car you get for the money especially compared to the wranglers at the prices they're going for. We went straight to the parts dept and ordered fog lamps, chrome grill, chrome front deflector, chrome gas cap and we bought a fire-road trail map book for california. Thanks for listening. Oh,yeah we went for a drive today and already got a compliment on our nice ride.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-23-2006, 01:05 AM
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Re: not thinking about buying anymore

Pics Pics Pics!!
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-23-2006, 10:45 AM
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Re: not thinking about buying anymore

Oooohhh shiny key chains!!! That'll do the trick each time

Sounds like you got a decent deal (although you never said what the kbb trade-in value for the tj was).

I will say this for the benefit of other who are looking to finance:

1st rule of car buying is you don't negotiate monthly payment. You negotiate the price, the trade if any and the interest rate of any loan as 3 separate transactions independent from each other. If the salesman asks you if you're trading in you say maybe, I'm not sure. If he asks you what kind of monthly payment you are looking for, never, give him a figure. You tell him you want to pay x amount for the car, or better yet say you are probably just going to pay cash. Once you arrive at the price $31,500 in your case, then you go to to the trade and negotiate that separately until you come to what you will have to pay on the car. You should have a kbb trade in value pintout of your car and the deler should give you that amount with no real negotaiting. Then the final step is you negotiate an interest rate for the remaining money you need to finance. (if you originally said you were paying cash, say you want to see what kind of rate you get as it may be worthwhile to finance and use the money you have for something else). Remember dealers lie to you every step of the way and will walk over their dead mothers to make an extra $50 of the deal. Don't feel bad about telling a few yourself.

What you should have in your hand when you walk though the door is a pre-approval letter from a bank or any other insitution showing you are approved for x amount loan at y interest rate. If that final interest rate you negotiate with the dealer is 1/100 of a percent higher than your y rate, you start walking out the door and magically the salesman will find you a lower rate. If bank xyz can get you a loan at 6%, the dealer can too, they all use the same lending criteria. If the dealer says the best he can do is 8% he is full of crap and you should not do business there.

Gap insurance is in 99.99% of cases a bad idea to start with. The loan lady, just like the sales guys works on comission. When she adds things like gap insurance and a multitude of other insurance products they try to sell sell, it's just adding profit to the dealer.

My very first car, I leased and looking back on it I must have been high on PCP or something since it may very well have been the worst deal in the history of car buying. So it is a mission of mine to squeeze every last cent out of them and spread the word to as many as I can.
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-23-2006, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: not thinking about buying anymore

I'll post pics when I get the commander back from my wife. Hey edlv, sounds like good advice. I wonder if I we would have done better if we'd done it that way. The kelley b book is $8995. We figured that we will probably chunk down on payments or switch interest rate with equity from our 2nd home If we want later. And damn if they didn't try to get us to lease. We also made that mistake once. On a nissan xterra. (what a dog) Do not lease unless you want to trade in every year or two and you have money to burn.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-23-2006, 04:45 PM
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Talking Re: not thinking about buying anymore

Congrats, Looking forward to the pics.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-23-2006, 09:55 PM
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Re: not thinking about buying anymore

OK fellars... I have said it before and I will say it again; you can't just sit there and say "dealers lie to you every step of the way and will walk over their dead mothers to make an extra $50 off the deal"!!!! A. it is horribly offensive! B. it is most generally not the case at all!

I can certainly say that I have never had to lie to a customer to get them to purchase, along the way I have made mistakes, but have always cleared them up before the customer purchased.

Edlv practically makes my point for me when he states that you should just walk in with a KBB printout and the dealer should just give you that amount... What?... Even the KBB site tells you that they can in no way guarantee the amount and they are a guide only. Hard to put an exact figure on a specific vehicle without a sight appraisal. But, edlv fails to mention that KBB will also give the consumer new car prices based off of industry research for their area, prices that are generally a little bit higher than what the consumer is willing to pay in many cases. I don't see edlv advocating that you should just pay that price for the new car... Wonder why? Oh, that's because it's his "mission to squeeze every last cent out of them" that he can... I wonder what type of business you are in edlv?

Edlv the bottom line is this, the dealer is in business to make a profit, and the vast majority of dealers do it above board. When did that become wrong in this country? If you don't want to negotiate, pay the sticker price and move on down the road...

I will agree with you about pre-approvals. That is never a bad idea to explore all financing options, just as you would when deciding which dealer to buy from.

One other thing when it comes to leasing, I am in the business, have been for several years, and leasing is the way that I buy my own vehicles. Leasing is a great benefit to customers who do trade cars every five years or less. The key is to make sure that you talk over your personal driving habits with your sales consultant before structuring the lease. If anyone needs additional info regarding leasing you can certainly email me.

Try to have a good time when you go car shopping! You will be surprised how much fun buying a new car can be...
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-24-2006, 09:17 AM
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Re: not thinking about buying anymore

While almost all car salesmen have their paycheck based on commission you will from time to time find some that are not going to give you a raw deal. Some do have some ethics and values. Case in point - when I bought my KJ the sticker was a little above 27K. I got it for 19K out the door. Yes it was at the end of the month and yes there was a DC rebate of 3K. Yes I got the military discount. But the dealership didn't have to throw in the free matience for a year (though I hear that Jeep now has the "miles to freedom" offer and I kinda wish I had waited) or the aftermarket alarm/remote start. It basically comes down to this: If you walk into the sales room like you own the place then the salesmen will know that he/she can't be pushy or they will lose a sale to another dealer. If you walk into the same salesroom shy and meek the salesmen will be on you like a pack of dogs.

And ALWAYS do some research (internet, magazine articles, etc.) before you even visit the dealer lot!

Glad to hear that you stayed with Jeep. Now lets see some pics of you wheeling that new toy of yours...
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-24-2006, 11:02 AM
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Re: not thinking about buying anymore

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger31
Edlv practically makes my point for me when he states that you should just walk in with a KBB printout and the dealer should just give you that amount... What?... Even the KBB site tells you that they can in no way guarantee the amount and they are a guide only. Hard to put an exact figure on a specific vehicle without a sight appraisal. But, edlv fails to mention that KBB will also give the consumer new car prices based off of industry research for their area, prices that are generally a little bit higher than what the consumer is willing to pay in many cases. I don't see edlv advocating that you should just pay that price for the new car... Wonder why? Oh, that's because it's his "mission to squeeze every last cent out of them" that he can... I wonder what type of business you are in edlv?

Trying to convince the general public that car dealers are ethical businesses will be a tough sale my friend, a little harder than convinving them going to the dentist is fun.

Is it ethical when a dealer tries to add $1400 for the "Desert Protection Package" which is 2 coats of wax? Is it ethical when dealers run credit checks without customer approval? Is it ethical when you get bombarded with mail from dealers? Is it ethical when they dealers sell you gap insurance at $20 a month, the same gap insurance your auto insurance company will sell for $20 a year? Is it ethical when after test driving you leave and a sales manager tells you to **** off for wasting his time (happened to me 3 years ago at a Nissan dealership after I test drove the new Maxima and had the gall not to buy it). Is it ethical when you purchase a new car with 18 miles on it, come back a day later to pick it up and oops car's got 192 miles on it? (happened to me as well)?

I have no problem with the dealer making a profit, not at all in fact I am all for unbridled capitalism. I noticed you did not have a rebuttal for my 3 separate transactions idea. If you negotiate a monthly payment, you will pay too much. Think about it: the dealer does hundreds of deals a month, knows every trick in the book (legal tricks). You are a consumer buying a car every 2-3 years, you really think it's a level playing field? If you answer yes you are very naive. I am merely pointing this out and not implying that dealers should not be allowed to do what they do.

KBB: I buy and sell cars at least once a year, usually more than once a year. Whether I sell my car privately or trade-in, the price I ask is KBB "good", end of story. Any dealer who refuses to give me that does not get my business.
When did I say kbb was not to be used for new cars? use i, use edmunds, use autobytel, use everything available to you.

Another good resource is carmax.com. They sell new cars with no haggling, the price you see is the price you pay. Their price is a little higher than the best deal you can get at a regular dealer but you have a good starting point. If your car is selling for $40K at carmax, you go to the dealer and offer $38.5K and start the negotiating from there.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-24-2006, 11:28 AM
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Re: not thinking about buying anymore

Quote:
Originally Posted by edlv
Is it ethical when a dealer tries to add $1400 for the "Desert Protection Package" which is 2 coats of wax? Is it ethical when dealers run credit checks without customer approval? Is it ethical when you get bombarded with mail from dealers? Is it ethical when they dealers sell you gap insurance at $20 a month, the same gap insurance your auto insurance company will sell for $20 a year? Is it ethical when after test driving you leave and a sales manager tells you to **** off for wasting his time (happened to me 3 years ago at a Nissan dealership after I test drove the new Maxima and had the gall not to buy it). Is it ethical when you purchase a new car with 18 miles on it, come back a day later to pick it up and oops car's got 192 miles on it? (happened to me as well)?
Wow that sucks. I personally would have told the dealer to keep the car and (not so kindly) ask for my money back. I would also have reported them to the Better Buisness Bureau.

And I know what you mean about the "Protection package". When I was in High School I worked at the local Chrysler dealer as a sales porter. Ya' know, washing cars for delivery and such. DC has a "paint sealant" that is nothing but a heavy wax. The salesmen would charge customers $100 for us to wax their new vehicles! But then the customers were also led to believe and sometimes outright lied to- that this "sealant" would protect their paint for up to 365 days or something outrageous like that. No wax lasts THAT long. Maybe a month, but thats about it...rediculous.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-24-2006, 01:46 PM
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Re: not thinking about buying anymore

Bottom line is that in a free market a person or business can ask any price they want for a product or service, unless that product or service is regulated by the gov't. So, is it ethical to mark up a "protection pkg.", or GAP insurance, or even service or maintenance plans, absolutely! Is it ethical to misrepresent the service or product, absolutely not!

Fellars, and ladies, do your research before you buy any product. Yes, I do happen to agree with you that you should negotiate the price and trade value when you are purchasing a vehicle, not the payments. The payments are going to end up being what they are based on credit and term. Unless, of course, you intend to lease and then the bottom line is the payment that best fits your budget.

A better question is, where in the world are you shopping at that you continue to have these kinds of problems at? is there not a better place you could be doing business???

Come on down to Texas!
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