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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-13-2014, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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General question about expenses

Dear all,

Considering that in Italy to own a car is becoming really expensive i'm curious to understand how expensive is to own a commander in different countries.

To find this out i would like to know who much do you pay for insurance, propriety taxes and other governmental fees linked with the possession of a car.

Thanks in advance

Present: 2007 Jeep Commander 3.0 L CRD - 2" lift kit - full led interior lights - 6000K HID low beam - 4500K HID fog lights - black HULK wheels - custom side exhaust system - DPF removed - matte black front grille (plastidip) - extra HP and torque chip tuning.
Previous: 2003 Jeep Cherokee/Liberty 2.8 L CRD - custom exhaust system - front bar protection - custom rear tail light - sold at 110.000 KM
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 08:54 AM
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Those fees vary from State to State and region to region in the U.S., as well the price of gasoline does as well. In addition, the Federal Agencies attempts to limit pollution result in different formulated gasoline from location to location at different times of the year to best address the enironmental conditions of the area, that results in mileage of two equal vehicles varying a noticeable amount as well.

Gasonline is often 1/3 to 1/6 that of European and Asian countries, right now about $3.40USD for a gallon of gasoline, or $0.90USD per litre. The fuel is heavily taxed and taxes equate to as much as half the fuel price if NOT more in some states, it is suppose to be used to maintain the public roads, but is often squandered and our roads and bridges are often in very poor condition. Actually, European and Asian countries tax their fuel even heavier than that, as well as refusing to allow more refineries to be built, etc that is why their price is so much higher than the U.S. despite the crude oil being sold for the same price as it is to the U.S.

If states even have a property tax on vehicles, it based soley on the current worth of the vehicle. Most states just have a sale tax for when its purchased. I've heard in European and Asian countries this often based off the vehicle size/weight/engine displacement, i.e. driving owners to only being able to afford smaller cars.

There are often yearly or bi-yearly registration and tag fee's, often about $50USD-$200USD. I've heard in many European and Asian country's its oten the equivalent of thousands of dollars US.

Most states have a safety inspection law, yearly about $60USD, plus repairs that may be needed to pass that safety inspection (which is really just maintenance and repair of the vehicle, safety inspections just force irresponsible or ignorant drivers to do the maintenance and repair that is needed on their vehicles instead of blowing it off).

Sufficive to say, typically the U.S. auto market is freier and more open than most European and Asian markets. The cost of ownership due to government imposed mandates, fees and taxes is usually much lower and less total, our fuel industry is run much better resulting lower fuel prices, although insurance can vary greatly within different states and areas due to impact of those industry.

But don't get the wrong impression, the U.S. has lots of government intervention into the Industry, its own inconsistent energy policies and tax schemes designed at auto owners. Just a little less than other countries.

And that is the major tumult in the U.S. Auto Industry, every decade or couple of decades, the intervention into the market place, the poor energy policy, etc results in it coming back and biting us in the butt. Gas prices spike, cost of ownership spikes for what ever reason. The result is, consumer demand changes overnight and the Domestic Auto Industry is unable to respond fast enough, while importers have the vehicle designs in demand from their own domestic markets that are worse off than the U.S. market. Thus U.S. Domestic Auto makers loose ground to Imports once again.

That is why Chrysler/Jeep was owned by Germans 20 years ago, and today they are owned by Italians.


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Last edited by Mongo; 10-14-2014 at 08:56 AM.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 09:02 AM
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And its only fair to say the U.S. Auto makers don't have their own responsibility for the problems as well. The lesson has been quite clear since the 70's that they have to have small fuel efficient cars designs, with the manufacturing capacity waiting in the wings for these market tumult periods. Chrysler ended their very successful small car (the Neon) program and replaced it with a larger, less fuel efficient Cross-Over SUV. Then there was another Gas Crisis.


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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
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thank you very much for the detailed answer.

Ya, in Italy (as more or less in Europe in general) the car market is less free than the american one.

Just to give you an example: in 2008 a brand new commander (3.0 CRD Limited) was sold in the dealer at 56.000 Euro, more or less 70.000 dollars. With the same amount you could afford to buy a SRT 8 in USA.

The gasoline here is more or less 1.8 -1.9 euro per liter (2 - 2.50 dollar per liter) and the diesel a little bit cheaper.

Just to own the car your have to pay an annual propriety tax calculated on the power of the car: a commander with 218 HP should pay 490 euro (619 dollar) per year just to "exist". This tax is proportional to the power of the car until 250 HP, after that you pay much more as a "super tax" (i.e. if you own a Grand Cherokee srt 8 with 470 HP the annual tax amount is 4070 dollars).

Not to mention the prices of the dealers (official ones). All the parts you need here are at leas three times more expensive than the same part in U.S.

Plus here in Italy the insurance is terribly expensive because a lot of people has the bad habit to abuse of it so the rate is really high. Just the "civil liability" (coverage in case of accident, damage to other) + fire and theft policy the annual rate is more or less 1500 euro (1890 dollars).

I've always been fascinated from easier way to live is USA according to taxation and rules.

Present: 2007 Jeep Commander 3.0 L CRD - 2" lift kit - full led interior lights - 6000K HID low beam - 4500K HID fog lights - black HULK wheels - custom side exhaust system - DPF removed - matte black front grille (plastidip) - extra HP and torque chip tuning.
Previous: 2003 Jeep Cherokee/Liberty 2.8 L CRD - custom exhaust system - front bar protection - custom rear tail light - sold at 110.000 KM
.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filo8818 View Post
The gasoline here is more or less 1.8 -1.9 euro per liter (2 - 2.50 dollar per liter) and the diesel a little bit cheaper.
Yet crude oil to make the Gasoline is the same price for both the U.S. and Italy, it is an open, world wide market, so even U.S. that has been making more use of its Domestic supply lately (which is much greater than Italy) is the same price as the imports, if NOT more, so the initial costs to start making the Gasoline is the same for the U.S. and Italy. The much higher prices have to do with the gasoline industry in Italy and the Government Intervention/Barriers that is much worse than in the U.S.

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Originally Posted by filo8818 View Post
I've always been fascinated from easier way to live is USA according to taxation and rules.
NOT to get overally political, this is a car forum, and politics and economies are complex subjects that no one has the true answer.

But, the U.S. has been incrementally increasing its social spending and entitlements to closer to those in Europe and we have been racking up an astronomical national debt trying to do it. That has more to do with the political stand off in the U.S. that grows worse and worse, than it does with entitlements in general.

But the up side of the U.S. "should" be the lower taxes and regulations, the down side "should" be the lesser social services and entitlements.

And I would argue the greater economic opportunity and efficiency of providing those services allow Americans to provide those things for themselves. Which is an argument NOT everyone would agree with.

The problem is, the U.S. is trying to have it cake and eat it too, while the politicians and voters that put them into office refuse to give ground and decide which one it is going to be.


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Last edited by Mongo; 10-14-2014 at 10:55 AM.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 10:58 AM
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i live in Canada and it varies from region but for ontario you have to get a safety inspection when you buy the car around $60 (the dealer usually does it) and every few years you need to get an emissions test to check the pollution, price varies by shop but is usually $40-75.

every year you need to buy a sticker for your license plate thats like $100, and you renew your license every 5 years for $100

then theres insurance it varies greatly on your driving record, region you live in but i pay $300 a month with everything included and I've only had my license for 2 years it should slowly go down every year if i keep a clean driving record. gas ranges from $1.15-$1.30 a litre for 87 octane we mostly have 3 octane levels 87,89,91

an example of what commander are going for in my region you can get an 2007 limited for like $15,000 with a little over 100,000 KM

i don't pay any taxes on it except when i bought it which was 13% of the sale price. thats everything i can think of right now. prices are in Canadian dollars

2007 Steel Blue Metallic commander Limited HEMI
All Options Except: Saddle Brown leather and Bluetooth

Last edited by joshmantesso13; 10-14-2014 at 11:05 AM.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshmantesso13 View Post
...every few years you need to get an emissions test to check the pollution, price varies by shop but is usually $40-75....
Forgot that one, that is the same in the U.S. as well. The pain is the pollution inspection is getting the repairs if you fail, they can cost a lot and depending on the laws for some states in the U.S. a car may have to be junked earlier than it has to be because of the pollution inspection.

Canada and the U.S. have the longest undefended border in world history. Although there are many ways they differ, you can drive into Canada or vice-a-versa and almost forget you're NOT in your own country.

A few of the U.S. pollution and safety standards for the vehicles are out to lunch and do cause totally unecessary headaches and expenses for owners. The difference between a bad standard and a good one, a perfectly good working system fails a self-test and the technition doing the repair can NOT repair it because they can NOT find the cause since it is so incredibly minor it can't be found, it ends up with very expensive guesses in the dark, just to get a warning light to go out.

The Air Bags, the Federal Standard for reliability is insane, the system runs a self-test that is so incredibly fine (to meet the statistical reliability standards) it will fail a perfectly fine working system. Even with the self-test setting DTC's to tell you what it found wrong, it won't fix it, because the trigger was so incredibly minor it can be something else.

The Evaporative Emissions Standards, setting Check Engine Lights in cars, failing pollution inspection and owners bringing the vehicle back to repair shops a dozen times and it still NOT getting fix. The standard for a leak is way below anything that would conrtibute in the slightest to pollution, and since a leak so tiny can fail the system, its impossible for a troubleshooter to find the leak. Then the OBDII computer only runs the test when certain conditions are met, meaning weeks go by before it does a self test again and fails itself. It almost always results in the tech making blind guesses at what component to replace next, to find it doesn't work weeks later and then its another part and another couple of weeks, until its finally fixed.


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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 12:37 PM
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Here in Britsh Columbia Canada, it is about the same as joshmantesso13 in Ontario. Except no safety or pollution testing. Only the Vancouver area does pollution testing every year but that is being stopped soon..next year I think. The police can issue a safety inspection if they think your car is unsafe.
My insurance with full coverage is $136 a month. With a good driving record for the last 22 years of driving I get a -40% discount. It can go up substantially with speeding tickets and accidents. +40% or more.

Our parts in Canada seem to be about 150% more than in the USA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by filo8818 View Post
thank you very much for the detailed answer.

Just to own the car your have to pay an annual propriety tax calculated on the power of the car: a commander with 218 HP should pay 490 euro (619 dollar) per year just to "exist". This tax is proportional to the power of the car until 250 HP, after that you pay much more as a "super tax" (i.e. if you own a Grand Cherokee srt 8 with 470 HP the annual tax amount is 4070 dollars).
I use to want to live in Italy but think I will have to re-think that Shhhh don't tell our politicians. They would love to find another way to tax us.

06 Hemi

Last edited by Eric S; 10-14-2014 at 12:44 PM.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 01:43 PM
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EZ-Pass is the next Tax Scheme. I'm sure you must have something like it in Canada.

The little transponder box you put in the windshield, lets you drive right through tolls without stopping to pay, because the transponder identifies you and it charges an account you keep money in.

There is talk of mandating these for all cars, you must have one to drive on the roads. What they don't talk about is, they will put up tolls everywhere now. Out of sight, out of mind, people will just accept it is one more bill they have to pay to carry out life in the USA. Of course that bill will go from $30 a year for the occassional toll bridge, to $150 a month for all sorts of new tolls on most roads and every bridge.


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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 02:14 PM
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Not here yet. In Vancouver there are toll bridges. There is a camera that recorders the vehicles license plate and you get the bill in the mail. Can't remember the cost though.

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