Transmission problems and many questions to go with! - Jeep Commander Forums: Jeep Commander Forum
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-08-2015, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Transmission problems and many questions to go with!

I have a 2006 jeep commander limited 5.7 hemi with 183,000 miles. Ive been having problems which I posted on a past thread about it stalling at stops in cold weather. I had heard about maybe my transmission filter might of had a crack in it so I decided to have it changed just in case. Well in the past week my transmission has started acting up. When im going down the road, especially going up a hill it seems to slip back into 4th gear from 5th really hard when I try to give it an increase in gas and half the time it does it, it wont shift back into 5th unless I come to a stop and start over. When it does this the jeep jerks real hard, there is a loud bang under the gas pedal, and my rpms will be around 3000 at a steady 60mph on flat ground. Don't know if this is correct but on another post where someone described the exact same problem, someone said they thought it was an input/output speed sensor. Well I dropped it off at goodyear to try to get the filters changed. I told them I didn't want it flushed I just wanted them to change the filters and fill it back up. He told me that even if they just did that, it would probably cause my transmission more harm than good. Then he checked the codes and wouldn't do anything with it after that. This is the list of codes he gave me that it came up with.

p0700 transmission control system
p0128 thermostat rationality
p1521 incorrect engine oil type
p0128 coolant thermostat
p0732A gear 2 incorrect ratio
p0845 transmission fluid pressure sensor
p0750 shift solenoid A malfunction
p0733 gear 3 incorrect ratio
p0735 gear 5
p0734 gear 4
p1521 manufacturer controlled vehicle speed (idle speed)

So after this he told me I needed to take it to a transmission shop. Today my girlfriend took it to a recommended transmission shop and the guy said it needed to be replaced. So now im stuck wondering if I should replace the transmission or trade it and get a new vehicle while it still runs. If I decide I want to replace it should I get a rebuilt or a used transmission? If I trade it, Kelly blue book says its worth about $7,700 in good condition which I think it is and $6,300 in fair condition. How much will that decrease with the transmission problems its having? I cant really feel a problem except for the 4th and 5th gear issue. Is there a way to fix this without a new transmission? how long does a shop normally take to replace a transmission? do think its worth replacing the transmission with how many miles are on the vehicle? I don't know a thing about transmissions and have never had to deal with this before. If you were in my position what would you do? thanks
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-09-2015, 09:30 AM
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I had an issue with mine that after getting to a stop sign and then stepping in the gas it would hesitate to shift and then it would start moving, what I did was add a lucas automatic transmission fluid conditioner and it stopped. I might of just gotten lucky but it worked for me. Also I was not getting any codes so it might be somehting different with yours.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-09-2015, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longwalker83 View Post
...Well I dropped it off at goodyear to try to get the filters changed. I told them I didn't want it flushed I just wanted them to change the filters and fill it back up. He told me that even if they just did that, it would probably cause my transmission more harm than good...
He's an idiot or a rip off artist, do NOT go back to them. The FSM, the manufacturer themselves say the way to service the transmission is to drop the pan, change the filters and refill it to the proper level with fresh fluid. (on the NAG1/WA580, there are additional steps and a special tool to check the proper fluid level).

I wouldn't be surprised if adds a couple onces of an additive to Dexron II and tells you it magically changes Dexron II (Grp II Basestock) into ATF+4 (Grp III & IV Basestock).

Chrysler has a TSB out saying flushing transmissions does more harm than good, and NOT to do it. Who do you trust more? The guys that designed, tested and built the car, or the guy on the corner shop that stands to make more money from you convincing you to pay for extra service?

Of course, if you've gone 183k miles without a fluid and filter change on your trans, he may be thinking you've got to get all of the overdue for a change fluid out of the trans, and NOT replace just half of it.

Check your O.M. I not sure of the service intervals for your trans, but if you tow/off road/drive in heavy traffic, etc I'm sure you're way overdue for a fluid and filter change.

I'm NOT convinced your trans is toast, BUT the thing with transmissions, if they have a problem, especially when they are NOT shifting correctly, you need to fix it immediately, if you continue to drive a malfunctioning automatic trans it will eat itself up in a very short time. As well the way the trans are constructed, most repairs require removal, total teardown to get to the part and then a total rebuild, which at that point you're a fool NOT to pay the extra $200 for the rebuild kit while their at it, to have all fresh clutches, bushings, etc, i.e. a total rebuild, while they're at it.

If you've only driven a couple dozen miles with the trans acting like this, you may be OK. BUT if you've been driving for hundreds of miles or more, than I'm very willing to believe the trans is toast, even if the root of the problem was a bad speed sensor that could have been replaced in 10 minutes.

There are lots of trans shops that rip off customers and sell them a new transmission when all they need is a simpler repair. I'd consider getting a 2nd opinion.

Lots of codes for trans control and wrong ratios, its very easy to imagine a bad speed sensor could cause the TCM to sense those things. I'd even look at how much it costs to buy new speed sensors and swap them out yourself and see if it does anything to make it better.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-09-2015, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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That is what I was thinking as soon as I talked to him. I made it clear that I just wanted him to change the filters and fill it back up, because I knew at least SOME new fluid couldn't hurt and I wanted to see if it had a cracked filter while I was at it. But he told me with that many miles that it might not even drive back out of their shop when they were done. Is that possible? I don't know much about transmissions but as long as none of the metal got mixed around inside I wouldn't think it would do it harm. Maybe I'm wrong? I actually picked up the speed sensors right before I took it there but I have to wait until next week before I can put them in because I can't fit underneath without some ramps...
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-09-2015, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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BTW he never tried to get me to flush it or anything extra, he just wouldn't touch it after the codes came up. I just don't understand why he said changing the filters and refilling it would hurt it.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-09-2015, 09:35 PM
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There is an urban legend going around, and many old farts stick by it.

There has been more than one person that continued to drive their malfunctioning transmission, doing all sorts of damage to it, they wait until it is just about to fail before they try to do something to fix it. If its just changing the fluid and filter, that really does nothing to fix a trans that is damaged and failing, their trans fails soon after and they conclude that the new fluid and filter somehow did it. They come up with all sorts of goofy imagined stories about how it stirred up debri, or how it dislodge sludge that was actually holding parts together, etc, etc, like any of these things are acceptable.

Believe me, on other forums, I've seen old farts chime in again and again, better not do that, just leave it be, if you try to change the fluid it will cause it to fail.

Fact is, changing the fluid and filter will NOT cause your trans to fail. If you're trans is failing, changing the fluid and filter will NOT keep it from failing.

If your trans fails a week after changing the fluid and filter in hopes that changing the fluid and filter might fix some problem in the trans, then your trans was going to fail in a week whether you changed the fluid and filter or NOT. The new fluid and filter didn't do it.

Mechanics have to deal with ignorant customers all the time, he may have had a guy change his fluid and filter on his failing trans, it failed a week later and he was back in the shop screaming how what he did destroyed his trans.

The biggest reason the general repair shop probably turned you away after reading all the codes, they knew they didn't have the expertise to diagnose and fix your trans. All they knew is you have some problems with your trans, and an auto trans that have been driven for a while with problems often are severely damaged and likely to fail soon. So if he touched it, he might have to fight with you about you claiming he's liable for what happened to the trans that he knows is NOT his fault.

And yes, when you change the fluid and filter in an automatic trans, you're only changing half the fluid. That is why there is a recommended interval to change the fluid and filter, based off how severe your usage is. The idea is, as long as you get half the fluid changed often enough, there is always fresh enough fluid in the trans, its protected. So if you've driven that trans for 183k miles and have never changed the fluid and filter, depending on the severity of the usage of your driving and the appropriate change interval, you may have all the fluid in the trans bad, that could be your problem.

Last edited by Mongo; 01-09-2015 at 11:34 PM.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-09-2015, 09:38 PM
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I'd find another trans shop and get a 2nd opinion, like I said, there are a lot rip off trans shop that if you come in for a burnt out tail light, they'll tell you need a new trans.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-09-2015, 09:53 PM
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My 06 shifted hard and it was cured after both filters were changed. Probably around 100K
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-10-2015, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creek View Post
My 06 shifted hard and it was cured after both filters were changed. Probably around 100K
Yea, but did you have codes:
p0700 transmission control system
p0732A gear 2 incorrect ratio
p0845 transmission fluid pressure sensor
p0750 shift solenoid A malfunction
p0733 gear 3 incorrect ratio
p0735 gear 5
p0734 gear 4
p1521 manufacturer controlled vehicle speed (idle speed)

He definitely has a problem here, it might be a bad sensor totally confusing the TCM and throwing these codes. He could have a trans totally chewed up and about to fail, throwing these codes from mechanical malfunctions.

Changing the fluid and filter, can't hurt, despite some idiots insisting it might.

Fluid that has sheered and degraded from use, clogged or leaking filters, can cause malfunction from pressure problems in the hydraulics or rough clutch engagements, etc... So in some cases fresh fluid and filter would solve these problems.

Unless all these codes come from transient states during clutch engagements, that are slipping because of pressure or degraded fluid, he others things wrong with the trans. Hopefully its the combination of bad fluid/filter and a bad sensor.

Sadly, it could be the trans is suffer sever mechanical malfunctions and has damage, I hope that's NOT true, but its possible.

If I was a general mechanic, and I saw those codes, I wouldn't touch the trans either and tell you to take it to a trans expert or the dealer, that is better able to diagnose the problem and repair it. A general mechanic would know it is possible your trans could fail any minute and just changing fluid and filter won't change that, but the mechanic would open himself up to liability if it did fail after he serviced it, even if it obviously was NOT his fault.

When you get the pan off, if there is all sort of goop, sorta like a grease or soft putty, sparkling matter, even pieces of metal. That is bad news, you've likely got lots of mechanical damage. The soft putty material, that is almost like grease, is usually worn off friction/clutch surface materiel. Its normal to have a little bit of it in the pan, usually collected on the magnet in the pan. But if you have tons of it, like all over the pan, that means all your clutch material has worn off and they are worn out now.
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