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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-06-2016, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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ECM failure.

Hi everyone. I am a new member on here, and I have an on-going problem with my jeep commander. I am originally from the uk and bought an European deisel jeep year 07. We then exported this jeep to Saskatchewan Canada when we came out to work here . It has 84000 Km's on it when it developed an over heating problem on the ECM. It. will only run for about 20mins before cutting completely out. No ignition or anything. Got new ECM from uk as could not get old one repaired in Canada. Now jeep garage are unable to programme the new ECM. And the Canadian jeep headquarters will not supply the garage the information required. The garage have trying to get this problem resolved for about 3 months. Can anyone out there help please.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-06-2016, 11:27 AM
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The PCM (what you call an ECM) requires the VIN# be programmed into it for it to perform anti-theft checks with other modules and thus enable it to start and run the motor. A dealer must do that, or at least a big independent shop with the very expensive and extremely proprietary tools that must connect with cooperate databases for a fee.


The international component of this is probably complicating everything as well. Since you're PCM is UK and you're now in Canada with all different laws, standards and configurations. The people that would help you might NOT understand the situation or have some sort of law or rule they are following, OR they simply might NOT have the ability to do the job with the mismatched equipment.


I'd call Chrysler (NOW FCA) customer service and complain. They generally take complaints seriously and might be able to break through any bureaucratic barriers you may be encountering, if that is the problem.


This "Jeep Garage" is it a Jeep Dealership? Or is it an independent garage that specializes in Jeeps, cause a dealership might have better luck dealing with these cooperate proprietary crap than an independent shop.


North America didn't get Diesel Commanders, they couldn't pass the emissions at the time. Another part of it, they can't send diesel protocols anywhere in North America, or UK/Europe programming tools are different than North America, thus they can't run the UK protocols even if they sent them to the shop, etc, etc.....
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-06-2016, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Mongo. Thank you for your assistance. The jeep is at a main jeep dealer in Melfort . Saskatchewan. To be honest the jeep dealer garage has gone beyond helpful, it is as you say red tape. They have been using last 8 digits of the vin number. To whom would we make an official complaint, the U.S.A Chrysler or Canadian Chrysler. We have already complained to the customer ( so called) care which is in Toronto, who have told us " they can not do anything, because it is European".
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-06-2016, 05:26 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Mongo, sorry I have just thought of a possible solution. What if we paid flights, accommodation for a technician to come out from UK. Do you think this would be a viable solution?
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 10:01 AM
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I don't know if its a viable solution. I don't know enough about the Dealer WiTech Tool and its software, and how they change it for the UK market to tell you for sure.


Have they explained this to you in detail, or do they just say it can't be done?


If it is a viable solution, then Chrysler (now FCA) is screwing up big time. There is no reason why the Dealership in Canada can't do exactly what a Tech in the UK can do with the tools available to them.


It doesn't make sense why they would design an entire new set of tools for the vehicles just for the UK/European market.


Modifying the software for the UK/European market to meet the standards in that market, then adding checks in the system to prevent mistakes, like loading US software in a UK Jeep, does make sense.


BUT, this all should just be a matter of Cooperate HQ sending a copy of the UK software to the Canadian Dealership, and having someone explain the differences and what they need to do to work on your UK vehicle.


I would NOT be surprised, since the Dealer WiTech Tool has to connect over the internet and interact with a cooperate database to track configuration and actions on the vehicle, that even if the UK Tech came to Canada with the UK tool, the UK tool still wouldn't work because it would recognize it was connecting in Canada instead of the UK.


There are only three reasons I can think of why Chrysler/FCA is NOT fixing this.
*Poor Customer Service, you're NOT worth their time to fix your problem.
*You imported the Jeep Illegally, therefore they can't legally help you break the law. (You did go through the right channels, correct?) (Importing a privately owned vehicle from another country is legal on a personal basis in most countries, there are few things you have to do to get an exemption for the different standards of different countries).
*The laws are all screwed up between the UK/Canada/USA, perhaps its legal to import your UK vehicle to Canada, but its illegal for a US Company to support vehicles outside of the country they were sold in.


If they can't explain in detail why they can't help you, I'd suspect its Poor Customer Service.


I'd write a letter to Chrysler Customer Service as well as call again, ask them if the only solution is too have a UK tech fly to Canada with a UK tool just to write the VIN# in a PCM, how they can claim they designed the vehicle properly or are they just blowing you off and NOT supporting the vehicle they sold you.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Mongo. Yes the vehicle is here legally it cost us about $1000,00 dollars to get it through customs at Halifax. Then before we could put it on the road it had a Canadian safety done on it. We will definitely be writing a complaint and sending it as then we have a paper trail, so to speak. It is always better to have things in writing, I totally agree. You gave us their web site didn't you? But we will also be having a chat with the U.K. Tech people and see what they have to say. Thank you for all your help. And we will let you know the outcome.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-08-2016, 12:08 AM
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ECM failure.

I may be completely wrong but could you get a ecu same number from a uk salvage yard with keys (if it has the immobilizer) and get the jeep running again?

I know the vin and mileage should be corrected but desperate time and all... If it'd even work.


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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-08-2016, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Conundrum2006 View Post
I may be completely wrong but could you get a ecu same number from a uk salvage yard with keys (if it has the immobilizer) and get the jeep running again?

I know the vin and mileage should be corrected but desperate time and all... If it'd even work.


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No, the ECU/ECM (technically its a Powertrain Control Module PCM) compares the VIN# written to it to VIN#'s in other modules in the vehicle. If the VIN#'s don't match, the PCM will immobilize, basically refuse to start and run the engine.


The way your suppose to do it, is install the PCM and have the Dealer write the VIN# to the new PCM with their tool and software, so it matches the VIN# of the vehicle and other modules, and thus will work.


To get around the writing of the VIN# to the new modules, I imagine you'd have to get every module with matching VIN#'s out of a junk vehicle and install all of them. And even then there may be some sort of provision that I don't know about that might foil that work around.


The Dealer tool and software has a bunch of idiot proofing written into it, to prevent poorly trained techs from making big mistakes. Unfortunately in this case, the idiot proofing is what I suspect is foiling the work around the Original Poster and his Canadian dealer are trying to do. The Dealer hooks up their machine and its software to the Commander, and the Software provided from Chrysler says, "This is a Canadian Dealership Software, but the Vehicle is a UK vehicle, I can only load and work with Canadian vehicles".


I am still floored Chrysler won't make an exception and send UK software to the Canadian Dealer to use it just once for this guys Commander.


But I'm guessing, there may be a lot more to this problem that I don't know.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-08-2016, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
No, the ECU/ECM (technically its a Powertrain Control Module PCM) compares the VIN# written to it to VIN#'s in other modules in the vehicle. If the VIN#'s don't match, the PCM will immobilize, basically refuse to start and run the engine.


The way your suppose to do it, is install the PCM and have the Dealer write the VIN# to the new PCM with their tool and software, so it matches the VIN# of the vehicle and other modules, and thus will work.


To get around the writing of the VIN# to the new modules, I imagine you'd have to get every module with matching VIN#'s out of a junk vehicle and install all of them. And even then there may be some sort of provision that I don't know about that might foil that work around.


The Dealer tool and software has a bunch of idiot proofing written into it, to prevent poorly trained techs from making big mistakes. Unfortunately in this case, the idiot proofing is what I suspect is foiling the work around the Original Poster and his Canadian dealer are trying to do. The Dealer hooks up their machine and its software to the Commander, and the Software provided from Chrysler says, "This is a Canadian Dealership Software, but the Vehicle is a UK vehicle, I can only load and work with Canadian vehicles".


I am still floored Chrysler won't make an exception and send UK software to the Canadian Dealer to use it just once for this guys Commander.


But I'm guessing, there may be a lot more to this problem that I don't know.


Ok. Thanks. No idea how involved the pcm/ecu was to the rest of the modules.

I don't get why the jeep corporations is having such a hard time with this. Couldn't they fly a properly programmed ecu over from the UK?


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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-08-2016, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Conundrum2006 View Post
Ok. Thanks. No idea how involved the pcm/ecu was to the rest of the modules.

I don't get why the jeep corporations is having such a hard time with this. Couldn't they fly a properly programmed ecu over from the UK?
No, that won't work, the PCM has to be in the vehicle to program, the connector is the OBDII port in the vehicle, the tools do NOT connect to the modules individually.


Can a UK dealer put a PCM into another Commander in the UK and write the VIN# for the O.P's Commander in Canada, take it out and ship it to him in Canada? Well, I don't know.....
*The idiot proofing of Dealer tools might prevent this, the tool might recognize what the VIN# should be for the vehicle since the VIN# is written in other modules, and thus refuse to write an incorrect VIN# to the new PCM installed.
*Since Commanders are out of production, a UK dealer is unlikely to have one on his lot to use as a host to attempt this work around.


Yes, I am frustrated with the OEM's, how they can't imagine there would ever be any exception and thus NOT plan for it. They set everything up that the only way service can be performed is if you bring the vehicle to the Dealership and have them perform the service. And even then they don't respond to legitimate exceptions. They should have the ability to enable and write data to the modules with them out of the vehicle. Knowing that importing cars over national lines on an individual basis is legal, they should be prepared to support vehicles in this case, despite it being rare.


The governments are the same way, the heavy interference and regulation of the industry, the regs and laws are all written with no exceptions in mind. And thus the exception gets left out in the cold. But even the national regulators and legislatures are flexible enough they allow personal importation of vehicles. So its ridiculous the OEM would NOT be able to support it and say, you have to ship the vehicle back to the UK every time it needs service.
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