wierd rearward slope after lift, oh and spacer questions - Jeep Commander Forums: Jeep Commander Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-08-2015, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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wierd rearward slope after lift, oh and spacer questions

I am running 245/70/17s. I just finished the SENSEN ready to install struts and Bilstien shocks on the rear of my XK, and I also installed the lift kit. The kit said 1 3/4 rear and 2 on the front. The front had a noticeable slope forward before(although I never measured it), but now its a noticeable slope back(1/2" difference from front to rear) and looks a little weird. Is this normal?

Can someone tell me what measuring a stock XK from the ground to the fender flare straight up the center of the wheel? Does it truley slope forward or was it just an optical illusion?

ALSO I am getting ready to buy spacers and was wondering if I really needed hubcentric spacers? I didn't use hubcentrics on my WJ, but I keep seeing other people using them on the XKs. I am thinking 1" just for looks, or do you guys think bigger would be better?.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-11-2015, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mnypitXK View Post
Can someone tell me what measuring a stock XK from the ground to the fender flare straight up the center of the wheel? Does it truley slope forward or was it just an optical illusion?
Front 31 1/2 and rear 33 3/8 inches. Stock 06 limited with hemi, 35 psi in tires, no one in Commander, 1/2 tank of gas, no cross wind and it's a Friday

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Past -89 Comanche, 98 Grand Cherokee (2WD), 2000 Cherokee, 05 Grand Cherokee Limited 4.7
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-11-2015, 09:31 AM
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Someone posted a better method of measuring ride height, from the lip of the fender flare to the center of the wheel, instead of too the ground. Doing it this way eliminates any difference the tire size will make. The center of the wheel will always be at same point in relation to the body, regardless of the tire size. But a bigger tire will raise the vehicle and add to the vehicle lift.

When I replaced my shock/struts with Blistien 4600, original springs, so no lift, my front was raised to level out the vehicle. I liked it, but over the next couple of days it settled out to have the forward rake again. But NOT as bad as when it had worn struts and strut mounts and spring pads.

I looked up the Sensen quick struts, they claim to be stock ride height. NOT like the Blistien 5100 that at its lowest setting will raise the front 3/4". So its possible the strut might NOT be what they claim. Its also possible that the lift kit might NOT do as it claims and raises it different.

Its also possible the new strut/strut mount/spring pads need to settle out and come down to their final ride height. Which my blistien 4600 did after 2 days or so of driving. I'd wait a couple of days of driving and measure again, hopefully that is all that is needed to settle out the front and get it to level.

I suspect as the suspension parts wear the front sags a bit, giving even more of forward rake, struts don't provide any real force to push up and raise a vehicle, but they control the suspension better to NOT dip as much over bumps that might let it hold at higher height, as well as fresh mounts and pads compress less, so I get the impression the Commander might sag a tiny bit up front with suspension wear and get even more forward rake, then freshening up the front suspension raises just a tiny bit to less that forward rake to what it was new.


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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-11-2015, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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The front has settled out a bit. I took it in for the alignment today and they showed me that the Caster was perfect, the camber was just at the top of spec, but when he tried to adjust it, the sliders were already at full travel, so they will stay right there unless I get adjustable ball joints, or something similar. The toe was way out, which they fixed.

So I guess we will wait to see if it settles any more. Although, mine looks about like Big Blue's ride height from that other post I just read. So maybe its normal. The front is definitely 1/2" taller though, to center of the wheels and to the ground. It only has 80k on it, so I doubt my rear springs are worn out.

So we will live with it. Sucks that I just bought tires though, because it could definitely use a little bigger set under there.

I ordered the 1.25" spacers to get a little wider stance so hopefully that will help the looks.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-11-2015, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnypitXK View Post
......The front is definitely 1/2" taller though, to center of the wheels and to the ground. It only has 80k on it, so I doubt my rear springs are worn out......
Did you say that wrong? You mean 1/2" taller from the fender bulge lip to the center of the wheel?

Center of the wheel to the ground distance would only change if the tires were different sizes, or tires had such a huge difference in air pressure. Which, with 4WD, that big of a difference in front/rear tire diameter is wearing out your transfer case something awful.

[EDIT]
Doh! I went back and re-read you're post, I misunderstood, you're saying it is a 1/2" taller measuring both ways, from the fender bulge lip to the ground and measuring from the fender bulge lip to the center of the wheel. That makes sense.

If you want to compare your ride height with others, that might have different sized tires/wheels, then use the distance between the fender and the center of the wheel. You can put all different sized tires/wheels on your car, they will change the distance between fender to ground, but regardless of the size of the tire/wheel, the distance will always be the same (for your vehicle) between fender and center of the wheel.


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Last edited by Mongo; 12-11-2015 at 01:28 PM.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-11-2015, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
Did you say that wrong? You mean 1/2" taller from the fender bulge lip to the center of the wheel?

Center of the wheel to the ground distance would only change if the tires were different sizes, or tires had such a huge difference in air pressure. Which, with 4WD, that big of a difference in front/rear tire diameter is wearing out your transfer case something awful.

LOL,, no my mistake. to the center of the flare.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-11-2015, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnypitXK View Post
LOL,, no my mistake. to the center of the flare.
LOL, I just edited my reply, no it was my mistake, you worded it as its the same difference both ways you measure it, I mis-read it as if you measured it between the wrong points.


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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-11-2015, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mnypitXK View Post
The front has settled out a bit. I took it in for the alignment today and they showed me that the Caster was perfect, the camber was just at the top of spec, but when he tried to adjust it, the sliders were already at full travel, so they will stay right there unless I get adjustable ball joints, or something similar. The toe was way out, which they fixed.

So I guess we will wait to see if it settles any more. Although, mine looks about like Big Blue's ride height from that other post I just read. So maybe its normal. The front is definitely 1/2" taller though, to center of the wheels and to the ground. It only has 80k on it, so I doubt my rear springs are worn out.

So we will live with it. Sucks that I just bought tires though, because it could definitely use a little bigger set under there.

I ordered the 1.25" spacers to get a little wider stance so hopefully that will help the looks.
When I first had my lift kit installed about a year ago, I had the same exact issue you are having and as Mongo said, it does settle out over time. As you can see in this Picture she is about perfectly level.



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Last edited by Big Blue; 12-11-2015 at 08:45 PM.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-11-2015, 09:57 PM
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Big Blue, have you measured your ride height at the Rocker Panel? Front and Rear points?

Cause the wheel wells can vary front and rear in their dimensions. I have a '69 Charger and in that era, it was common styling to have the rear wheel well top edge to be lower and closer the top edge of the tire and the front wheel well was higher simply because of the fact the front wheels have to turn, it needed to be to clear the tires.

So I look at your photos and I do get the impression there is a little more gap between tire and wheel on the front vs the back, but I look at the rocker panels and it appears perfectly parallel with the deck to my eye.

Regardless, despite that I do beat you up a little, saying why don't you put in taller springs and shocks instead of blocks to raise it, I've got say you've got a good looking Commander!


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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-12-2015, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
Big Blue, have you measured your ride height at the Rocker Panel? Front and Rear points?

Cause the wheel wells can vary front and rear in their dimensions. I have a '69 Charger and in that era, it was common styling to have the rear wheel well top edge to be lower and closer the top edge of the tire and the front wheel well was higher simply because of the fact the front wheels have to turn, it needed to be to clear the tires.

So I look at your photos and I do get the impression there is a little more gap between tire and wheel on the front vs the back, but I look at the rocker panels and it appears perfectly parallel with the deck to my eye.

Regardless, despite that I do beat you up a little, saying why don't you put in taller springs and shocks instead of blocks to raise it, I've got say you've got a good looking Commander!
Thanks Mongo.

No, I have never measured those gaps.

I will probably do it in the next few days so I have something for comparison to see if there is any difference in how she sits after I have the new Bilsteins & rear coil springs installed.

When I measure it, I'll post the results.


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