After lift question about front - Jeep Commander Forums: Jeep Commander Forum
Suspension / Lifts This is the place to discuss the suspension, lift systems, and other stuff underneath your Jeep Commander

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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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After lift question about front

Ok..

I have been wanting to ask this for a while..

For those you who have a 2" Tera or similar style lift.

Does it feel like your front is stiffer or have more "preload" on it. I am not sure if I am describing it correctly but My XK does not take big bumps well at all. It almost feels like a pogo stick.

Normal driving it is fine. Big bumps suck. I want to know if a replacement OLD MAN EMU strut designed for a lift would change this?

Jim
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 11:23 PM
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Not sure about the rough ride, but my truck does have a balance issue, but I think that's related to the wheels, not the lift. My truck does ride stiffer, but I'm also using Bilsteins instead of stock shocks.

2006 XK Sport, 4.7l, QTII- many mods
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 12:35 AM
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Torque at ride height

I've experienced similar issues on other vehicles before. One thing I always do when installing these budget type lift kits and Leveling kits(on the full size trucks) is to loosen all the suspension arms, track bar, basically any suspension component that uses a rubber bushing and retorque them at the new ride height. When the factory builds the vehicle this is how they are torqued(Viper Excluded those get setup at design height not ride height) at ride height. It may not seem like much but by not loosening them you are putting a preload on the rubber bushings which can in fact make the suspension seem "stiffer". It's always the little details which will make the difference in the big picture
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 09:46 AM
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the bushings have a metal sleeve on them. the outer tabs that hold the suspension to the bushing in the arm only tighten around the metal sleeve, not the rubber. they will not get bound up unless the sleeve has rusted to the bolt.

if you are adding in a spacer on the spring it will make the spring stiffer and make the spring rate go up. so your ride will suffer.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 12:34 PM
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Uh, 4.7?
I must respectfully disagree with you on this one.

Crossfire is correct and the method is substantiated in any service manual.

For example, if the upper ball joint is removed from the spindle, you will note that the arm will not drop. If it did, it would indicate the bushing has sheared from the collar, or the control arm is loose and the bushing collar is not pinned between the mounting ears as designed.
Original equipment bushings are poured around the inner sleeve and within the outer sleeve.
I have only seen bushings as you have described as the high performance greaseable nylon type such as Energy Suspension Etc.

Not meant to offend, but milkman should utilize Crossfiretek's method.

Rob
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 02:18 PM
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Once I have the cash I'm going to get the Superlift, I hear the ride quality's much better as it keeps the geometry more in line with stock. I won't replace the balljoints like Phunkeydude did, don't want to deal with the potential failure issues.

2006 XK Sport, 4.7l, QTII- many mods
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 04:07 PM
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I think this is on topic enough..

With respect to the balljoint failures – on this forum I’ve seen one failure (Tom) and a guy with a WK (different forum) had one fail. Both rigs are lifted. One balljoint was aftermarket and one was stock.

If I’m wrong on this, someone please correct me.

The factory designed droop limiter on the front of the XK is the strut itself. When it reaches its extension limit, it stops the downward travel of the A-arms. When you add a spacer above the strut, you have now “used” an amount of the downward travel of the A-arms (thus gaining lift), but the strut is still in its normal ride-height position within its travel range. Now when the front suspension drops, the strut still has all its original extension travel left, but the A-arms only have a portion of their downward travel left before something else reaches a limit. In this case, the upper balljoints reach their angle limit and pull apart. I suspect the lower balljoints aren’t far behind.

I don’t know that the aftermarket balljoint is weaker than stock, I suspect its stronger. I think if you exceed the maximum design angle on any balljoint, something has to give. The weakest point is where the joint is pressed together, and it’ll pop right open.

Thoughts?


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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 09:19 PM
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Kmax,

You are absolutely correct.
If 1" or more is added to the installed length of the strut,the upper ball joint stud will meet the lip of the joint socket, causing it to become the drop limiter.
Ultimately the stud will shear during full extension due to side loading

To prove the theory, both sway bar links must be removed at the lower control arm.
Then with wheel removed and a jack under the control arm [The vehicle must be on jack stands obviously ] access and remove the 4, 18mm head nuts that retain the upper strut mount to the body.
Next, lower the lower control arm that is being held by the jack. You will find that upon full extension and then beyond, the upper strut plate will drop away from the body slightly more than 1".
You'll notice the 4 studs will not even drop out of their mounting holes.
Well at this point the drop limit has become the lip of the upper ball joint against the stud. This is the absolute mechanical limit if the joint.
If you disengage the ball joint from the knuckle at this time there is about another 2" of drop before the lower control arm strikes the frame at its pivot points.

Thats why the 4" kits relocate the lower arm,repl upper arms,lower the front diff etc. It's the only way to safely exceed 2 to 2.5 inches of lift at the hub center.

Don't forget that a 1" change in installed strut length, will equal 2" at spindle center. This is because the strut meets the control arm about center between pivot and ball joint.
This also equates to a 2" change at the ball joint mounting point.

Rob
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 11:36 PM
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http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...Bushings-2.jpg

Right from Jeep.

I simply do not feel like getting into a pissing match about this. Take my advice or don't.

Last edited by Crossfiretek; 07-17-2008 at 11:40 PM.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4.7commander
if you are adding in a spacer on the spring it will make the spring stiffer and make the spring rate go up. so your ride will suffer.
There are two ways to add a spacer (for more lift)....either a top-out spacer or a pre-load spacer. A small spacer shouldn't have any real noticeable affect on stiffness though...
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