2" lifts- RR vs. RC vs. Daystar Difference? - Jeep Commander Forums: Jeep Commander Forum
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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2" lifts- RR vs. RC vs. Daystar Difference?

Hey everybody! So I am about a week away from getting my lift installed on my 2006 Limited Jeep Commander. I decided to go with a RR 2.25 lift kit for the front and the back, OME MD front struts, bilstein rear 4600 shocks and 1.5 inch spidertraxx spacers.

My question, before I go through with the lift, is if there is a significant difference in the performance, fit and installation of these different brand spacer lifts? I have seen people with Day star and Rough Country lifts as well, and wanted to know why people decided to go with one as opposed to another.

Thanks again for your help!!
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Chavis View Post
Hey everybody! So I am about a week away from getting my lift installed on my 2006 Limited Jeep Commander. I decided to go with a RR 2.25 lift kit for the front and the back, OME MD front struts, bilstein rear 4600 shocks and 1.5 inch spidertraxx spacers.

My question, before I go through with the lift, is if there is a significant difference in the performance, fit and installation of these different brand spacer lifts? I have seen people with Day star and Rough Country lifts as well, and wanted to know why people decided to go with one as opposed to another.

Thanks again for your help!!
Why 4600 rear shocks? Makes no sense, those are stock length.

You MUST have written that backwards with OME rear shocks and 4600 front struts. You really want to have longer rear shocks. Front should be stock length.


Have them clearance the gas tank skid so that you will get full droop in the rear. Otherwise your rear control arm will contact the skid.
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Originally Posted by luckyse7ens View Post
Why 4600 rear shocks? Makes no sense, those are stock length.

You MUST have written that backwards with OME rear shocks and 4600 front struts. You really want to have longer rear shocks.
Why?

You absolutely DO NOT need longer shocks in the rear for a Commander with a 2 inch lift.

If you want to install longer shocks in the rear, that's always an option - but it is not necessary.

People seem to have this misconception that having longer shocks (Bilstein 5100's for example) in the rear will raise your rear end and they absolutely will not do that by themselves, regardless of what setting you put them on.

They are just shocks, you will not raise your rear end the slightest bit by installing rear shocks that are longer than the OEM shocks - unless you specifically buy longer, load-leveling shocks, which are typically more expensive - or if you change the springs AND the shocks.

Bilstein 5100's - which are longer shocks, are not load-leveling shocks.

The fact of the matter is, unless you plan on installing an even larger lift in the future, like a 4 inch super-lift, there is no performance advantage or benefit gained by putting 5100's, or any other longer shock in the rear, unless you do hard-core rock-crawling on a regular basis, where your suspension in the rear may benefit from having more travel from a longer shock.

In that case, I can understand doing it - but for normal, everyday off-roading, there are no benefits gained from a longer shock.

The Off-road 4x4 shop who installed my 2 inch Rough Country lift kit, (Southern Performance in Virginia Beach, VA) which is a very reputable shop that specializes working specifically on 4x4's, would not install Bilstein 5100's on my Commander and actually recommended the Bilstein 4600 HD shocks & struts with my 2 inch lift (which is actually a 3 inch lift with my larger tires) and that's what I went with. I'm very satisfied with their performance and haven't had any issues whatsoever off-road or otherwise.

I understand that Bilstein 5100's actually do fit Commanders - despite Bilstein's website stating that they do not, but again, unless you plan on installing a lift of more than 3 inches or doing hard-core rock-crawling on a regular basis - what's the point?

If I was going to question anything about what the original poster said, I would ask him why he doesn't just go with Bilstein HD 4600 Shocks & Struts?

The quality that Bilstein offers is an upgrade over the OEM shocks & struts, so why not upgrade the front & rear suspension as opposed to just the rear?

Stock length or not, the Bilstein 4600's are a nice upgrade - and I am speaking from first hand experience.

Here are some pics after I had mine installed;









Here is a pic of my ride next to a bone-stock Commander to give you a little more perspective:



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Last edited by Big Blue; 07-12-2016 at 09:28 AM.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-12-2016, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Blue View Post
Why?

You absolutely DO NOT need longer shocks in the rear for a Commander with a 2 inch lift.

If you want to install longer shocks in the rear, that's always an option - but it is not necessary.
I said you really want, not need longer rear shocks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Blue View Post
People seem to have this misconception that having longer shocks (Bilstein 5100's for example) in the rear will raise your rear end and they absolutely will not do that by themselves, regardless of what setting you put them on.





They are just shocks, you will not raise your rear end the slightest bit by installing rear shocks that are longer than the OEM shocks - unless you specifically buy longer, load-leveling shocks, which are typically more expensive - or if you change the springs AND the shocks.

Bilstein 5100's - which are longer shocks, are not load-leveling shocks.
I am familiar. I find that I have to correct people on that misconception constantly. The front struts, however, have varying lower spring perch height levels, which do allow you to lift the front end.+

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Originally Posted by Big Blue View Post
The fact of the matter is, unless you plan on installing an even larger lift in the future, like a 4 inch super-lift, there is no performance advantage or benefit gained by putting 5100's, or any other longer shock in the rear, unless you do hard-core rock-crawling on a regular basis, where your suspension in the rear may benefit from having more travel from a longer shock.

In that case, I can understand doing it - but for normal, everyday off-roading, there are no benefits gained from a longer shock.

The Off-road 4x4 shop who installed my 2 inch Rough Country lift kit, (Southern Performance in Virginia Beach, VA) which is a very reputable shop that specializes working specifically on 4x4's, would not install Bilstein 5100's on my Commander and actually recommended the Bilstein 4600 HD shocks & struts with my 2 inch lift (which is actually a 3 inch lift with my larger tires) and that's what I went with. I'm very satisfied with their performance and haven't had any issues whatsoever off-road or otherwise.

I understand that Bilstein 5100's actually do fit Commanders - despite Bilstein's website stating that they do not, but again, unless you plan on installing a lift of more than 3 inches or doing hard-core rock-crawling on a regular basis - what's the point?
There is a benefit. the stock shocks are the travel limitation in stock form. More travel equals a better ride and better articulation offroad. If you are replacing shocks anyways while doing a lift, why not get longer shocks? The cost increase is minimal if any. I spent $75 per shock shipped on my 5125's (universal bilstein rear shocks in custom lengths). 4600's are usually around $70.

I'd imagine that the reason that your shop suggested 4600's in the rear was to reduce your droop so as to not contact the gas tank skid. They probably didn't want to mess with it and didn't want you to complain about the shock body hitting the skid. That or people like the idea of having matching shocks front and rear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Blue View Post

If I was going to question anything about what the original poster said, I would ask him why he doesn't just go with Bilstein HD 4600 Shocks & Struts?

The quality that Bilstein offers is an upgrade over the OEM shocks & struts, so why not upgrade the front & rear suspension as opposed to just the rear?

Stock length or not, the Bilstein 4600's are a nice upgrade - and I am speaking from first hand experience.
I agree. I love my bilsteins. Performance advantages of monotube vs twin tube shocks are pretty well documented. Seems odd to me to mix and match manufacturers shocks.


BTW I have front and rear bilstein 5100's, ROR rear springs.

Last edited by luckyse7ens; 07-12-2016 at 04:26 PM.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-12-2016, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Chavis View Post
Hey everybody! So I am about a week away from getting my lift installed on my 2006 Limited Jeep Commander. I decided to go with a RR 2.25 lift kit for the front and the back, OME MD front struts, bilstein rear 4600 shocks and 1.5 inch spidertraxx spacers.

My question, before I go through with the lift, is if there is a significant difference in the performance, fit and installation of these different brand spacer lifts? I have seen people with Day star and Rough Country lifts as well, and wanted to know why people decided to go with one as opposed to another.

Thanks again for your help!!
I got the Daystar a while back, It was easy and has held up with no issues for 4 years. I don't do anything heavy though, I only wanted it for ground clearance

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Originally Posted by Big Blue View Post
Why?

You absolutely DO NOT need longer shocks in the rear for a Commander with a 2 inch lift.

If you want to install longer shocks in the rear, that's always an option - but it is not necessary.
WEEELLLLLLL....

When I installed my 2" lift, I found myself having to buy longer rear shocks, because when I went over a speed bump at 10MPH, my rear shocks would fully extend... and it would extend hard!

That was my experience anyway.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-12-2016, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by SkulhunterM42 View Post
I got the Daystar a while back, It was easy and has held up with no issues for 4 years. I don't do anything heavy though, I only wanted it for ground clearance



WEEELLLLLLL....

When I installed my 2" lift, I found myself having to buy longer rear shocks, because when I went over a speed bump at 10MPH, my rear shocks would fully extend... and it would extend hard!

That was my experience anyway.
I'd say its definitely strongly recommended. If you don't then you just end up losing droop since your static height is now greater, and your shocks are the droop limitation in stock form...


Regarding the rr vs rc vs daystar, (which OP seems to have made a decision on already) I'd say in general people are suggesting to go with rr or rc. Daystar can have the potential to wear in and lose some height in the front from what ive read.

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Originally Posted by SkulhunterM42 View Post
I got the Daystar a while back, It was easy and has held up with no issues for 4 years. I don't do anything heavy though, I only wanted it for ground clearance

When I installed my 2" lift, I found myself having to buy longer rear shocks, because when I went over a speed bump at 10MPH, my rear shocks would fully extend... and it would extend hard!

That was my experience anyway.
What kind of rear shocks did you have?

I guess that can be attributed to the difference in components used in the Daystar 2 inch lift kit & Rough Country 2 inch lift kit, or, the difference in rear shocks used - or some combination of the two.

I've had ZERO problems on or off-road with my Bilstein 4600's and what equates to, a 3 inch lift.

Big Blue is quiet & agile.


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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by luckyse7ens View Post
There is a benefit. the stock shocks are the travel limitation in stock form. More travel equals a better ride and better articulation offroad.
On paper, I understand that what you are saying is correct.

That being said, I question if there is really any noticeable performance difference.

How can you quantify it?

Internal components of the 4600's & 5100's are identical.

Would the average driver actually be able to notice that "more travel equals a better ride and better articulation while doing average every-day off-roading"?

I really doubt it, unless you are off-roading or rock-crawling in the most extreme of conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyse7ens
I'd imagine that the reason that your shop suggested 4600's in the rear was to reduce your droop so as to not contact the gas tank skid. They probably didn't want to mess with it and didn't want you to complain about the shock body hitting the skid. That or people like the idea of having matching shocks front and rear.
I think the main reason is because the vast majority of websites & shop databases you go to in order to look up compatible off-road suspension parts for a Commander list Bilstein 5100's as not fitting Commanders - and that includes Bilstein's own company website.

In light of that, they probably made their recommendation to avoid any liability if the 5100's failed or malfunctioned for some reason; from the business owner's standpoint, I can completely understand it.

Until Bilstein updates their product information for the 5100's and refelcts on their own website that they do actually fit Commanders, I suspect that most reputable, well-established shops will do the same thing to avoid liability.


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Last edited by Big Blue; 07-13-2016 at 02:27 AM.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Blue View Post
On paper, I understand that what you are saying is correct.

That being said, I question if there is really any noticeable performance difference.

How can you quantify it?

Internal components of the 4600's & 5100's are identical.

Would the average driver actually be able to notice that "more travel equals a better ride and better articulation while doing average every-day off-roading"?

I really doubt it, unless you are off-roading or rock-crawling in the most extreme of conditions.
I had stock rear shocks on the XK with a lift and upgraded to 26" shocks. This increased my droop by 4". The stock shocks are 22" IIRC.

My wife noticed the difference right away, since droop more than doubled, and damping performance increased dramatically over worn out stockers. Not sure how to quantify how much the increased length effected her experience. (there is probably an inappropriate joke in there somewhere)


I'm not sure what average every day off roading means to you, fire roads or something I assume. Would the average driver notice that their tires did not leave the road surface as often? I'm not sure. Probably not? Would I notice? Of course. IMHO there is a performance improvement in my vehicle.


I'm not here to argue that if you already have nice new shocks like you have that you must spend the coin to get longer ones. I feel that you are defending your purchase in this way. I'm just saying that if you are buying shocks to install with a lift then there is no reason not to get the longer shocks in the rear.

BTW- I installed my lift myself. There is potential for several more inches of droop in the rear without a lift with longer than stock shocks.

If you are happy with your setup then great!

Quote:
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Internal components of the 4600's & 5100's are identical.
I thought the same for a long time, but valving can be different, and 5100's have digressive valving vs I think linear valving for the 4600's

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What kind of rear shocks did you have?

I guess that can be attributed to the difference in components used in the Daystar 2 inch lift kit & Rough Country 2 inch lift kit, or, the difference in rear shocks used - or some combination of the two.

I've had ZERO problems on or off-road with my Bilstein 4600's and what equates to, a 3 inch lift.

Big Blue is quiet & agile.
The stock ones as far as i know. Got the XK at 57k miles in 2011.
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