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Discussion Starter #1
My jeep has 180000 miles and is on limp mode. 2 shops have diagnosed the vehicle for codes only. Neither has opened anything up. Both tell me the same info:

1. TCC Solenoid Circuit Error
2. 2-3 Shift Solenoid Stuck On
3. Transmission Temp Sensor Code
4. Input Sensor 2 Code

Neither gave me the actual code numbers.

One wants to replace the torque converter and "maybe" will find other issues.
The other wants to replace the TC, the TCC Shift Solenoid, the Valve Body plate, and "machine" the valve body. And then..."maybe" other issues.

I have decided to tackle this project myself. I can get the parts for $560 including a floor jack, user manual, transmission fluid kit, and fluid. If I pull the pan and find shavings, I can get a used complete transmission for $775 with 1 year warranty.

Here are my questions. How can either shop be 100% sure that the TC is bad? Is there a chance that only the TCC Solenoid is bad? It would be a lot easier to replace only that, wouldn't need to drop entire transmission.

Also, regardless of what repair I do...solenoid only, solenoid and valve body plate, solenoid, plate, and TC...assuming the problem is fixed...will the codes reset and get out of limp mode or will I need to take it somewhere for that?

Thanks!
 

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By any chance did all of the gears light up on the dash and have brackets around them ?
 

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Any chance that your trans cooler lines are weeping (somewhat common issue)? Low tranny fluid can cause all sorts of issues. Checking fluid level is tricky in this trans

pulling the negative batt. cable and leaving it disconnected for 10-15 mins should reset it after you fix the problem. Shouldn't have to take it in to reset the codes.

The v8 trannys are different btw so it's not the cracked filter problem that is common with those.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
5253...no...no bracketed lights.
lucky...I don't think so. As much as I hate to say I don't trust mechanics that I don't know very well...I would hope that 2 different shops wouldn't quote the same repair for approximately the same price without checking fluid level or noticing leaks.

Back to the original question...does the TCC Solenoid code DEFENITELY mean a bad Converter? That is what both shops are saying. But I am wondering why the code might not simply mean a bad solenoid? Or bad valve body plate?
 

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5253...no...no bracketed lights.
lucky...I don't think so. As much as I hate to say I don't trust mechanics that I don't know very well...I would hope that 2 different shops wouldn't quote the same repair for approximately the same price without checking fluid level or noticing leaks.

Back to the original question...does the TCC Solenoid code DEFENITELY mean a bad Converter? That is what both shops are saying. But I am wondering why the code might not simply mean a bad solenoid? Or bad valve body plate?
I'll bet you both shops plugged in a scanner read the codes and regurgitated the repair suggestion based on the codes.

I don't trust shops anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
That is what confuses me. I can't find ANYTHING on the internet ANYWHERE that lists the TC as the problem based on ANY code. Unless the shops are getting more specific information from their WITECH scanners than you can get from a general OBD2 scanner.

One friend who knows about cars...not enough to fix them...recommended dropping the pan, replace the solenoid and plate, and put it back together to see if that solves the problem. Worst case I still have to drop tranny and change TC and pay for more transmission fluid.

Thoughts?
 

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Actual code numbers would've been helpful.

Does the key dance give you any codes?

Have you tried an ELM327 and Torque Pro app?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
To further my distrust in shops...neither would give me a written estimate or the code numbers. I only discovered the "key dance" yesterday and plan to do it tonight or this weekend. As for other scan tools...I don't have anything. I only know that the shops used similar tools to Chrysler's wiTECH.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Based on info I could find, I was expecting either the ECM or a solenoid(s) to be bad. Nothing I read prepared me for bad TC. And nothing I have read since can reassure me that they have any legitimate way to identify the TC as the actual problem. Unless the wiTECH that diagnoses deeper than just a code is telling them that.
 

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I would try new fluid and filter first, then clear codes. See if that makes any difference. These trannies are very sensitive to fluid levels.

If not, save the fluid and dig deeper I suppose.




P0741 Jeep

P0741 Jeep - Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Performance



Read more: http://engine-codes.com/p0741_jeep.html#ixzz3WGlP4QnF
- Low transmission fluid level
- Dirty transmission fluid
- Faulty torque converter clutch solenoid valve
- Torque converter clutch solenoid valve harness or connectors
- Torque converter clutch solenoid valve circuit is open or shorted
- Transmission internal mechanical problem

Read more: http://engine-codes.com/p0741_jeep.html#ixzz3WGlLdnbL

P0777 JEEP Pressure Control Solenoid Valve B Stuck On
Possible causes
- Low transmission fluid level
- Dirty transmission fluid
- Faulty line pressure solenoid ‘B’ valve
- Line pressure solenoid ‘B’ valve harness is open or shorted
- Line pressure solenoid ‘B’ valve circuit poor electrical connection
Tech description
When the a transmission solenoid is stuck on, in most cases the problem is not the electrical part of the solenoid; the problem is foreign material obstructing the mechanical function of the solenoid or the flow of the fluid through the transmission valve body. If the transmission fluid is very dirty, it is recommend changing the transmission fluid and if possible removing the transmission pan for further diagnosis. Excessive debris or metal particles on the transmission pan could be an indication that there is a transmission mechanical failure and that the transmission will need to be rebuilt or replaced.
What about the obd code?
The gear required by the Engine Control Module (ECM) does not match the actual gear when driving
Symptoms
- Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light)
- Transmission shift shock
P0777 JEEP Description
The line pressure solenoid valve ‘B’ regulates the oil pump discharge pressure to suit the driving condition in response to a signal sent from the Transmission Control Module (TCM).
 

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That is what confuses me. I can't find ANYTHING on the internet ANYWHERE that lists the TC as the problem based on ANY code. Unless the shops are getting more specific information from their WITECH scanners than you can get from a general OBD2 scanner.

One friend who knows about cars...not enough to fix them...recommended dropping the pan, replace the solenoid and plate, and put it back together to see if that solves the problem. Worst case I still have to drop tranny and change TC and pay for more transmission fluid.

Thoughts?
I have heard of trans problems stemming from poor connections, slow fluid leak (like the aforementioned weeping transmission cooler lines, which don't really drip) and broken filters (on the v8 trannies). Quite frankly I doubt that your torque converter has failed. Shops make money replacing parts, so too many of them just throw parts @ you until eventually the problem is hopefully fixed.

If the shops have't even dropped the pan or checked the fluid level then I'd tell them to shove off.
 

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Transmission Conductor Plate for a decent price

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-917-678-Transmission-Conductor-Plate/dp/B00BJ4EG56/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428084692&sr=8-1&keywords=Dorman+917-678[/ame]
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The messages they said they got...
TCC Solenoid Circuit
Transmission Temp Sensor
Fuel Sensor
Input Sensor 2
2-3 Shift Solenoid Stuck on

But they say that they are all the result of the TC. High temp the result of TC not spinning and returning the fluid to the cooler.

2-3 being stuck on I assume is the limp mode?

I saw the same plate. Actually...I can get the solenoid, plate, TC, filetr kit, and ATF from Amazon for $460. I can get a used tranny floor jack for $75. And I can probably get a manual for $15-25. So to drop tranny and replace all...$560. My issue is actually dropping the tranny. I'd rather not if I don't have to. The solenoid and plate are a MUCH easier repair. I just can find anything that says any of the codes 100% definitely point to the TC. But my fear is that I replace the Solenoid and plate, the codes reset, the TC IS ACTUALLY bad, and I cause further damage to the tranny itself.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
And I've already made the decision to do the repair myself. Just trying to decide on the easier...and cheaper...solenoid/plate OR...do I also go with the more complicated TC swap for the extra $275. Again...the 16-20 hours removing and reinstalling the tranny being the bigger issue than the $275.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
AND...once I drop the pan...if I find shavings...I have access to a full used tranny with 91k miles for $775 with 1 year warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Other than being able to decide if the TC needs to come out or not. I was hoping someone could confirm what the shops(who want $1500 of my money) are telling me.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Dropped the pan. This is what I found. Obviously more than black pepper type grounds. But enough to be a big problem? Ideally not keeping this jeep long term. Do I replace valve plate, solenoid, and possibly torque converter? Or do I get the used tyranny and do a full swap?
 

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