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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

I bought a 2007 jeep commander back in July, I bought it used from a Honda dealer which had only a basic list of specs on the vehicle. I am curious about the more specific specs It has.

Here is what I know from looking at the jeep:
4.7L engine
Automatic trans with +- option to change gears manually
It has a 4LOW pull lever next to the shifter
Only Says 4x4 on the trunk door and only says Commander on the side trim
There is a cover blocking majority view to trans and transfer case

What I know from research:
V8 commanders with 4wd all had 545RFE transmission and NV245 transfer case
It either came with QT2 or QD2 4wd system
Rear differential is ELSD

I have tried running the vin through several vin decode sites, but I have gotten contradicting and not detailed enough information. I emailed chrysler to send me their specs based on the vin, but chrysler never responded.

What I would like to know is:
How do I check what type of 4wd system it has?
ELSD is uses what kind of lsd system?, i.e is it torsen, or is it friction based like a clutch lsd, and what exactly does the electronic part do, just engage the LSD or does adjust how much torque is going where?
Is the front diff a LSD? (this i have read is dependent if it is qt2 or qd2) And if so what type? (seems kind of pointless to me to have a 4wd vehicle with an open diff on either axle)

I will be performing a full service this weekend, i.e. changing all the fluids and filters (engine, trans, trans case, PS, etc) including the diff fluid, (im going to add the friction additive to both diffs to be safe). would I be able to physically see if it is a LSD in the front with the front diff cover off?

Any insight would be helpful.

Thanks Guys!
 

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Count the bolts or your rear differential if they are 10 then it is QT2 and if they are 12 then it is QD2 also if it is QD2 they usually have a label on top of the T for the 4 low, that says QD2.
 

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If you have the 4wd lo lever then you have QT2, unless you have the QD2 badge on the console.. Most 4.7l have qt2 from what I've seen.
 

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I will be performing a full service this weekend, i.e. changing all the fluids and filters (engine, trans, trans case, PS, etc) including the diff fluid, (im going to add the friction additive to both diffs to be safe). would I be able to physically see if it is a LSD in the front with the front diff cover off?
Getting an Owner's Manual (OM) and reading it will help. Many of the Commander's did NOT come with an OM, because no one reads them, and instead come with a "Quick Reference" Guide in the glove box. Original owners could order a OM for free, 2nd or later owners can NOT get it for free, but can download an electronic copy of the OM from the Jeep Website.

The listing at various sources claim ELSD's or 213RE, etc for vehicles/4WD systems that do NOT have them, I would NOT trust some generic guide.

The ELSD is an Elctronic Limited Slip Differential. It is electronically controlled and activates a pump turned by the differential rotation to increase/decrease pressure on the fiction/clutch discs in the differential, to decrease/increase slip or even lock the differentials. Because it takes differential rotation to drive the pump, it does NOT react instantaneously, but we are talking 1-3 rotations or 3-4 rotations in reverse, so the lag is NOT noticeable.

If you do have the ELSD's, identify with the posts already giving you the clues, you need to add Mopar Friction Modifier to the oil in the differentials, and you should do it even for the aftermarket oil claiming they are for LSD's. If do NOT have the ELSD's, than there is no need to add the Mopar Friction Modifier. Yes, many auto stores sell an aftermarket friction modifier, I have no idea if it is the same as the Mopar fluid, and it may require different proportions than the Mopar specific fluid to get the right performance, so its best just get the Mopar stuff recommended.

You do NOT remove the front cover of the Front Differential, you do on the rear differential. You just remove drain and fill plugs on the front differential. True the front differential has a bolt on cover but the differntial's mounts bolt to the cover, so removing the cover would get very complicated. I had to raise the vehicle and tilt the front upward to get all the fluid to drain from the front differential drain port.

NOTE: The differentials require "Synthetic" fluid, it should be 75W-140, which I doubt you can find that viscosity in anything but Synthetic.

The NV245 case originally it recommended ATF+4, but later was switched to a Chrysler specific xfr case fluid to rememdy some noise it was making while engaging different modes. There are some aftermarket fluids claiming they fit the bill for the NV245, but no way to verify if that is true. It's always safest to use exactly recommended by the manufacturer (either the Dealer fluid or an aftermarket fluid that is certified to meet the manufacturer's spec). But since the fluid change from ATF+4 was to remedy noise during mode changes, I'd suspect an aftermarket fluid from a reputable manufacturer that is quality synthetic fluid would do fine.

Remember ATF+4 is synthetic.

If it was something like one of the 31TE trans in the mini-van that burn up in 10k miles if you anything less than ATF+4, I wouldn't trust anything but the fluid certified to meet the manufacturer specs.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi everyone,

Thank you for the feedback.

No label for QD2 that i could find, so most likely QT2.

I tried moparownerconnect.com, but when I try to add a vehicle but i get the message:
"Sorry. The information you provided doesn’t seem to match with our records.
Please try again."
Am i missing something that they need? I have filled out the "profile" with everything but a phone number.

The consistent info I have found:
QD2 has ELSD in both differentials (front and rear)
QT2 has "conventional" differentials (I assume this means open)
4LOW locks the front and rear axles together and only with NV245 TC (on commanders at least)

Does anyone have a source that they know is correct explaining the QT2 and QD2 system?
for WKs i have found this: http://www.wkjeeps.com/wk_4x4.htm#QDII
Is this exatly the same with XKs? Or does someone have a better source for XKs?
For XKs this: http://www.xkjeeps.com/xk_specs.htm

Thank you guys for all of your input.
 

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No label for QD2 that i could find, so most likely QT2.
Its always possible the little glued on placard fell off during the life of the vehicle. I would count the number of bolts on the rear differential cover.

The ELSD, because it has an oil pump in it, has to have a wider differential case, but the difference is so little it can't be determined by just looking at it. The wider case requires more bolts on the rear cover, so if you have 10 bolts its the conventianol diffs and QT2, if its 12 bolts you have ELSD's and QD2.

The consistent info I have found:
QD2 has ELSD in both differentials (front and rear)
QT2 has "conventional" differentials (I assume this means open)
4LOW locks the front and rear axles together and only with NV245 TC (on commanders at least)
That is correct, the QT2 and QT1 systems have "Open" differentials, but bare in mind the Jeep Brake Control Systems (BCS) uses the ABS to perform more than a half dozen different functions to maintain traction and stability of the vehicle. So all Commanders have "Virtual" LSD's, if you get a wheel to start to slip, the brake will apply and slow it to the same speed as the other wheels and maintain torque to all the wheels. It does a lot more, and you can turn it on and off (some of the functions) using the ESP button, which you can press different ways to turn more than you think off. Read about it in the OM.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi Mongo,

I really appreciate your input on the full service. I have been doing research for the past month, and this is what I have bought:
It has a little over 130k miles on it.

Engine:
Mobil1 full synthetic 5W-20 high mileage
Mobil1 Oil filter (M1-204)

Transmission:
Super-tech ATF-4 (it was listed under the approved ATF-4 list from chrysler)
Mopar sump filter
Mopar external trans filter (the one that looks like an engine oil filter)

Trans Case:
Mopar NV245/247/249 fluid

Diffs:
Mobil1 75W-140 synthetic
Mopar friction additive (didnt know if i needed, figured it wouldnt hurt to add anyway)

Coolant:
Zerex G-05

PS:
Mopar PS fluid to MS-10838 spec (this was expensive, but i couldn't find anyone else that makes a fluid that is definitely up to this spec)

I have some High temp permatex sealant laying around that i was going to use to reseal the trans pan and the diff covers.

Question now that you brought up the diff covers, I understand that the trans has a magnet in the pan that should get cleaned, i was under the impression the diffs have a magnet that should get cleaned as well (130k miles)?
Also are there any plug seals/orings that I will have to replace for the trans, trans case, and diffs?

Thank you, this will be the first time i have worked on a jeep, so any input is helpful. Also if you know any difficult or PITA parts to the service i should be aware of.

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks again Mongo.

I think that clears up my questions on the QT2. I will count the rear diff cover bolts this weekend when I do the service, and after that I should be sure what 4wd system it has.

Thank you!
 

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Hi Mongo,

I really appreciate your input on the full service. I have been doing research for the past month, and this is what I have bought:
It has a little over 130k miles on it.

Engine:
Mobil1 full synthetic 5W-20 high mileage
Mobil1 Oil filter (M1-204)

Transmission:
Super-tech ATF-4 (it was listed under the approved ATF-4 list from chrysler)
Mopar sump filter
Mopar external trans filter (the one that looks like an engine oil filter)

Trans Case:
Mopar NV245/247/249 fluid

Diffs:
Mobil1 75W-140 synthetic
Mopar friction additive (didnt know if i needed, figured it wouldnt hurt to add anyway)

Coolant:
Zerex G-05

PS:
Mopar PS fluid to MS-10838 spec (this was expensive, but i couldn't find anyone else that makes a fluid that is definitely up to this spec)

I have some High temp permatex sealant laying around that i was going to use to reseal the trans pan and the diff covers.

Question now that you brought up the diff covers, I understand that the trans has a magnet in the pan that should get cleaned, i was under the impression the diffs have a magnet that should get cleaned as well (130k miles)?
Also are there any plug seals/orings that I will have to replace for the trans, trans case, and diffs?

Thank you, this will be the first time i have worked on a jeep, so any input is helpful. Also if you know any difficult or PITA parts to the service i should be aware of.

Thanks!
All the fluids you've selected sound fine, I personally would have choosen a few different but if I had already purchased them, I would NOT bother taking them back.

I use:
Mobil1 Synthetic 5W-20,

IMO no need for the High Mileage Oil, unless you engine is showing the wear that would require it. My daughter drives around my '95 Cherokee that still has a tappet lifter cam in it, these need the high impact Zinc additive in the oil that the latest "SM" and "SN" API certs have eliminated because all new motors have roller lifters and cams that do NOT require the additive, and the Zinc Additive tend to shorten the life of the Catalytic Converters and O2 sensors. The High Mileage Oil has the "SL" API cert and thus has the Zinc in the additives package.

Mobil1 oil filters are overkill IMO, NOT worth the extra money when the Hastings and Wix filters are way more than good enough, in a pinch Purolator filters are more than fine, never use the Orange FRAM Filters, they are junk.

SuperTech, although I'd shy away from Generics for Oil, I have seen article saying people have looked into it and it is just fine oil and yes, to put ATF+4 as the label on the bottle means it passed the certification of the Chrysler Spec for ATF+4.

Personally I use AMSOIL for all my lube except engine oil because I can't afford AMSOIL for engine oil since I am NOT going to extend the change period, I use Mobil 1 sythetic for the engine oil.

ASMOIL's Signature ATF claims it exceeds the specs for ATF+4, but can NOT label it as ATF+4 because it does NOT the exact viscosity. After doing some research, it seems the real specs for increasing versions of ATF+ and all the ATF's from all the manufacturers have been increased durability of the fluid, it is NOT some magical perfect formulation of friction properties and viscosities, heck most ATF viscosity had degraded to half of what it was during it use, the electronic control of the shifts will adjust for this anyway. Well, the friction properties have to be within reason. Its really the newer electronic trans run so hot and so demanding on the fluid, the fluid has to be higher quality and more durable to stand up to the demands. So, you'll see a lot of people use AMSOIL Signature Multi-Vehicle ATF in replace of ATF+4 and never report a problem, I'm using it in my Commanders NAG1 trans and never had a problem for the last 90k miles.

Definitely use the MS-10838 for you PS fluid, I am NOT aware of any aftermarket equivalent, so yea, you can only get if from the dealer. You have the Hemi, meaning you have the hydraulic driven fan which I imagine is the reason why this fluid is required now. I "suspect" but don't know for sure, the folks complaining of failing PS racks and pumps, or multiple failures of them, either themselves or the mechanic doing the repair use something less than the specified MS-10838 spec fluid in the PS system.

One last note, get a new tube of RTV for pan gaskets, there is a new Gear Oil RTV designed just for Diff Covers that has the max resistance to gear oil, that is what I used on the rear diff cover. Its cheap insurance against a leak that can destroy a very expensive differential. That old tube of RTV laying around may have separated or degraded.

The front diff and the xfr case use drain fill plugs, I use Permatex Hi-Temp thread sealant on the threads, works much better than other thread sealants and teflon tape for oil.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you on the input. Everybody has different experiences with different products.

I have never had a jeep before or a car that seems so specific on the fluid specifications. so it has been a learning experience for me.

I have used mobil 1 oil for years, my daily has almost 300k miles on it (its an old ford) and I switch off between high mileage and regular full synthetic, the high mileage stuff can be hard to find sometimes. But I have read that is has some sludge cleaning properties to it (dont remember where at the moment). I did not know too much about the adverse affects of the extra zinc in the high mileage formula, thank you for that information. I will do some more research on it as well.

As for the oil filter, until earlier this week i didnt know the napa gold oil filters were relabeled wix. I got M1 filter 30% off so it wasnt too expensive, but I will keep the wix in mind for next time. Purolator pure1 is what I used to use in my daily. I have never had a problem, almost 300k miles on original engine. But over the past year my friend and I have heard several reports of tears in the filter material from our HPD friends (a friend and I have a miata we use for HPD). Here is a link if you are interested in reading more about that http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=534688

ATF+4 had the most spread out reports on it, everyone has their preference. I got the Super Tech because it is "supposed to be up to spec" like other ATF+4 fluids but it was $2-$4 cheaper per quart, and i couldn't find any complaints from people who have used it.

Unfortunately i dont know too much about the maintenance history of the Jeep. I know the last oil change the dealer performed when they got it, about 2000 miles ago, and that the trans fluid still had a red tinge to it. The PS fluid in it now looks pretty bad though. I wanted to look at the diffs to see what condition they are in. I may still take off the front diff cover if its not too much of a PITA.

Good idea with the RTV, also Who makes the gear oil RTV, and where would I find it? At Pep boys, or advance auto?

I really appreciate the info. Thank you for your help.
 
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