Jeep Commander Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys i got my 2010 xk in December 23rd and its telling me to change oil already im guessing the stealership didn't waste their money on one!! anyways I was thinking of going with mobile1 0w-20 full synthetic. I loved this oil im my past cars and wanted to know of any issues you may have run into . also I have a set of ramps is this all ill need to get under my new toy?


JD:bowdown:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,960 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,037 Posts
Ummm,
2010 Jeep Commander Owners Manual said:
Engine Oil Viscosity
SAE 5W-20 engine oil is recommended for all operating
temperatures. This engine oil improves low temperature
starting and vehicle fuel economy.
The engine oil filler cap also shows the recommended
engine oil viscosity for your vehicle. For information on
engine oil filler cap location, refer to “Engine Compartment”
in this section.
NOTE: Vehicles equipped with a 5.7L engine must use
SAE 5W-20 oil. Failure to do so may result in improper
operation of the Multiple Displacement System (MDS).
Refer to “Multi-Displacement System” in Section 5 for
more details.
Lubricants, which do not have both the engine oil certification
mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade number,
should not be used.
The design of the motor, its clearances and tolerances and the conditions and temperatures you operate dictate the best oil viscosity to use, NOT what you liked from past motors that had a different design. The owners manual will recommend what they have tested to work best and for which conditions.

If you haven't installed an Oil Pressure Gauge and have some experience with understanding what its tell you, IMO its foolish to experiment with oil viscosity, I don't think I know more than the engineers that designed the engine, I listen to them.

BTW, I just picked up a 5qt jug of Mobil1 5W-20 Synthetic at Walmart.

If you've got the V6, and really want to use 0W-20, if you use a good quality synthetic, the extra film/shear strength of synthetic oil should make up for the lower viscosity selection, BUT, I have to ask why? Do you live in an area with a really cold winters and very mild summers?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,037 Posts
NO ONE on 4 wheels is more anal about motor oils than Ferrari owners (and their mechanics)

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles
Well I may be a country bumpkin rube, but seems to me, Chrysler Engineers that designed and tested the motor might know more about the best oil viscosity to use in their motors than Ferrari Owners and Mechanics.

Of course 0W-20 might work fine in your motor, why don't you post your oil pressure readings for different ambient temps, engine temps, rpm and load? And we'll compare.

There's a saying in the Engineering and Test communities; One Test is worth a Thousand Expert Opinions. Chrysler did a Multitude of Testing, and your Ferrari Forum, you don't have to read half his post to realize the guy is NEVER going to address individual application and actual result, and stay in the general. So, let me think, hmmm, yea, that was hard, I'm going with the Manufacturer's Recommendation.
The 0w-20 will flow better in cold temperatures - yet still provide the protection of the recommended 20 weight when fully up to temperature. An excellent selection regardless of where you live.
Synthetic flows betters at all temperatures, especially cold, than conventional of equal viscosity, so just switching to synthetic of the same viscosity would provide those benefits.

Overlay or compare the viscosity charts for 0W-20 vs 5W-20, you'll see the viscosity is lower at all temps up, often even at the 100° mark and past it as well.

Oil is NOT digital, multi-viscosity does NOT mean it magically changes to a different viscosity oil when it reaches another temperature. Multi-viscosity oil means its an oil with modified viscosity, they plot the measured viscosity and describe the modified viscosity by what reference oil viscosity it is closest to at 2 different temperatures, low and high.

Plot one line with points (0,0°) and (20,100°) and another line (5,0°) and (20,100°) you'll find the 0-20 is lower than 5-20 the entire range until they converge at 100°, and although its actually a curve, its the same thing, 0W-20 will be a lower viscosity through just about its entire temperature range than 5W-20, except at its high temp measured point.

As well, to achieve a wider viscosity range often requires the use of more additives that are especially the ones more likely to sheer and degrade with use and time and burn, leaving deposits in the motor. The sheering of the additives causes viscosity to drop faster and the oil to degrade faster and protect less the longer it is in the motor. Narrow range viscosity oils also tend to broaden the band of higher viscosity and drop off less in viscosity at the higher temp points past the high temp measuring point. If anything, if several multi-viscosity oil meets the conditions you operate, its more advantages to pick the narrower range of viscosity.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Don't get me wrong, switching to 0W-20 is NOT that big of a change from 5W-20, especially if you are also switching to synthetic. Good quality oil and more frequent oil changes are going to eclipse the slight viscosity difference in protecting your motor.

BUT, far better qualified people have tested your motor and found the best viscosity oil to use, they published their recommendations in a book and put it in your glove compartment, so why NOT just read it? OR you could go to a Ferrari forum and listen to someone tell you his analysis of oil, totally isolated from the individual application, which he NEVER address's, and decide he must know more about your Jeep than the engineers that designed and tested it. :lol:

If anything, the manufacturers have been leaning toward the lowest viscosity possible for energy savings ratings, I don't know why you would want to go lower, unless your operating in temps far lower than intended for you vehicle.

How are those Ferrari tires working out on your Jeep? I mean if Ferrari owners use those tires, it must be better than lowly old Jeep Engineers select for your Jeep. :lol: How is your tornado air system doing creating all that extra HP? and those Extra Energy Spark Plugs? After all, we all know the engineers designing cars never try this stuff, if a 5 dollar part really made an extra 25HP, they would never think to include it with the vehicle as OEM.

Please, this is the thinking you get when people start musing about oil viscosity and how they know better than the designers that tested the motors, as too what would be the best oil viscosity to protect your motor. Its all B.S., like I said before, if your experimenting with different than recommended oil viscosity and do NOT have an oil pressure gauge on your vehicle, IMO, you're a FOOL. And if you're one of those people, I have a Tornado Gas Saver to sell you, its just a little piece of sheet metal that will improve your gas mileage and make more power.

Cause the guys selling this know more about your Chrysler Engine than the engineers that designed and tested it, thats why this works. :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,037 Posts
also I have a set of ramps is this all ill need to get under my new toy?
Sorry, with all the hub-bub about choosing alternate oil viscosities, when there is absolutely no evidence to support switching, I forgot to address the 2nd question.

I'm much bigger than the average guy, and I was able to get under my Commander and change the oil with it just parked on level ground. Of course it was a bit of a tight squeeze, so if its worth it to you, pulling it up on ramps might make it easier, it wasn't worth it to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,128 Posts
The oil viscosity discussion will forever be one of those ever lasting arguments. I am on Mongo's side with it though.... people can swear by their more expensive 0W-XX all they want; but i guarantee if you put two engines side by side under the same exact conditions, one with 0W-20 and one with 5W-20, and you maintain both engines on a proper maintenance schedule... neither engine will last longer "because of the oil".

However, I very much doubt that running 0W-20 will "hurt" your engine either. IMO, it's fine to run it, but you're probably wasting your money.

I'm as anal as anyone when it comes to maintenance.... i will always run a quality synthetic oil at the weight specified by the owners manual (at least until i move to an arctic region where temps stay consistently below negative 40 degrees :rofl:)

FYI: In my GM truck's owners manual there actually was a blurb where 0W-30 may be used for "extreme cold regions" instead of the 5W-30. So there is a place for it in some applications.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,037 Posts
Thanks Matt, I totally agree with your points as well.

I just got wound up throwing the B.S. Flag. Oil is an incredible complex subject, and unless we have a Chrysler Engine Designer/Tester or Mobil1 Designer/Tester as a member of this forum, I don't any of us are qualified to judge which oil is best for a particular motor. BUT, someone that is qualified has recommended a viscosity for us, in the Owners Manual.

Yea, 0W-20 vs 5W-20, my bet it wouldn't really make a difference, if your maintaining the motor and changing the oil, especially if your using Synthetic. Of course I've seen people on other forums stating how wonderful 0W-20 was when their motors were suppose to use 10W-30, and NOT a single one of them had an oil pressure gauge on their vehicle to really know what was actually happening. And when pressed about what they saw that made it better, they just say things like, "well I keep hearing good things about it", "it hasn't failed me yet", I even had one guy say, "Pick up a bottle of 0W-20 and shake it, its like water, thats how good it is":silly:

It just makes you shake your head....:sick:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,128 Posts
:rofl: dude im right there with ya!!

I've personally done bearing design and oil viscosity analysis. Most people don't realize that oil too "thin" will actually result in a lack of lubrication.

I've tried to explain how it works on forums too because, having owned a lot of GM's where 5W-30 is recommended, there's always a few knuckleheads who "swear by" 0W-20... most of them say they do it just for better gas mileage too (as if the manufacturer wouldn't spec that oil already if it actually gave the vehicle a notable MPG boost :headbang:)

Oh well... there's bigger things to worry about then a few guys running the wrong oil in their engines :eek:rangehat:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,037 Posts
I've personally done bearing design and oil viscosity analysis. Most people don't realize that oil too "thin" will actually result in a lack of lubrication.
When I was a teenager with my first car, I was the opposite, I thought the thicker the oil, the better it protected and the higher the oil pressure the better the engine was being lubed. I was using 20W-50 in a motor that called for 10W-40. Thats just as bad as your example.

Its a balance between flow and pressure.

Its the right oil pressure, the right flow of oil through the motor that lubricates it the best. And motor designs differ and the right flow and right pressure will be different from motor to motor. And different viscosities will create different pressures and different flows through different motors.

I was worried about the OEM recommendation of 5W-20 for my Commander, all my previous vehicles were 10W-30, this seemed a bit thin for me. Then I installed an oil pressure gauge on my Commander, the 3.7L makes more oil pressure with 5W-20 then any of my previous motors with 10W-30, even when they were new.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,128 Posts
I think there's one thing that no one can contest:

Run the weight specified in the owners manual, run a quality oil and a quality filter, change regularly.

^^ People should do that so we can spend more time focusing on which lift is best, which tires perform better and last longer, what shocks/springs perform best, etc etc.... ya know, things that are actually worth discussing :shrug03::lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Mongo, I agree you just might in fact be a Country Bumpkin Rube - I'm grading you on a curve because you're a veteran. You are obviously clueless about motor oil. The fact the information link is posted on a Ferrari owner's site should mean nothing. If it might help you to comprehend it, here is the same information on the largest oil website on the internet. There are 34,000+ members and dozens of tribologists that post here.

Dr. Haas is a much valued contributor.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83&Itemid=1

I have a hunch you've never heard of Dr. Haas. You've obviously never read any of his published works. Your Jeep owner's manual just might contain all that you are capable of understanding about motor oil. Sorry to give you a dose of tough love.

Mongo said: "Synthetic flows betters at all temperatures, especially cold, than conventional of equal viscosity..."
Then Mongo said: "Overlay or compare the viscosity charts for 0W-20 vs 5W-20, you'll see the viscosity is lower at all temps up, often even at the 100° mark and past it as well."

Then you contradict both of your own statements with: "Plot one line with points (0,0°) and (20,100°) and another line (5,0°) and (20,100°) you'll find the 0-20 is lower than 5-20 the entire range until they converge at 100°"

Explain how one is always less viscous in two statements... until it all goes out the window in your summary. Read before you copy and paste.

Mongo, I would also recommend that you do exactly what the "factory experts" tell you to do concerning wheels, tires, intake, exhaust, suspension, tuning, and lets not forget Mongo, you should always demand genuine Mopar wiper refills. Quit reading about and blowing all your discretionary income on Tornados. You seem well versed on them enough already.

One last thing wise guy, don't look now, but there's a Ferrari guy running "your" company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergio_Marchionne
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
:eek:rangehat: Is it getting warm in here?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,037 Posts
Mongo, I agree you just might in fact be a Country Bumpkin Rube - I'm grading you on a curve because you're a veteran. You are obviously clueless about motor oil. The fact the information link is posted on a Ferrari owner's site should mean nothing. If it might help you to comprehend it, here is the same information on the largest oil website on the internet. There are 34,000+ members and dozens of tribologists that post here.
:lol: Ok, you obviously know so much more about Oil than myself, I mean look at your posts;

We got the wisdom of, in so many words, Go ahead and use 0W-20, its great. Listen to Ferrari owners and mechanics. Here's a link that talks about oil in theory, but has absolutely no evidence to help you decide the practical ramifications in your specific application.

Dr. Haas is a much valued contributor.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83&Itemid=1

I have a hunch you've never heard of Dr. Haas. You've obviously never read any of his published works. Your Jeep owner's manual just might contain all that you are capable of understanding about motor oil. Sorry to give you a dose of tough love.
I'm quite aware of bobistheoilguy.com, visit it often. I'm also capable of installing and reading an oil pressure gauge, and judging the effects of viscosity changes in the engine for the conditions. Something Dr. Haas spent a lot of time talking about, but you seem, in your wisdom, to skip over it completely in your recommendation to experiment with other than tested oil viscosities.

Mongo said: "Synthetic flows betters at all temperatures, especially cold, than conventional of equal viscosity..."
Then Mongo said: "Overlay or compare the viscosity charts for 0W-20 vs 5W-20, you'll see the viscosity is lower at all temps up, often even at the 100° mark and past it as well."

Then you contradict both of your own statements with: "Plot one line with points (0,0°) and (20,100°) and another line (5,0°) and (20,100°) you'll find the 0-20 is lower than 5-20 the entire range until they converge at 100°"
Its very simple, the 1st statement I compared Synthetic to Conventional Oil of EQUAL viscosity. The 2nd statement I compared 0W-20 to 5W-20, which are two different viscosities.

There is NO contradiction there at all. Yet, I know nothing about oil, but you don't understand that?

Explain how one is always less viscous in two statements... until it all goes out the window in your summary. Read before you copy and paste.
I explained the first time, and pointed out what you were missing the 2nd time, I never said one is always less viscous, I said 0W-20 will be less viscous at all temperatures up to the higher temperature measurements, and since the designation is the reference that actual measurements are closest to, they can and often are less viscous at or past the higher temperature measurement as well.

If I copy and pasted it? Really? Then find the source and post it, you should be prepared to back up your accusations before you make them falsely. That post was entirely original, except for the photo of course.

Mongo, I would also recommend that you do exactly what the "factory experts" tell you to do concerning wheels, tires, intake, exhaust, suspension, tuning, and lets not forget Mongo, you should always demand genuine Mopar wiper refills. Quit reading about and blowing all your discretionary income on Tornados. You seem well versed on them enough already.
:lol: Really? Read my posts, I have no problem deviating from manufacturers recommendations, when you can make a logical argument there is very little risk of harm, OR, I can measure the change and can show evidence of its benefit.

That was my whole point about experimenting with other than recommended oil without an oil pressure gauge, is foolish.

There is a huge difference between theory and practice, and you post a link to pages long article that is all theory and recommend to go ahead and put it in practice with no way of measuring result. Yea, OK, I'm the one that doesn't know what he is doing?

A picture of my Commander's Dash:

I'm NOT a purely stock guy, NOT that aftermarket gauges are that big of a deal, BUT, I believe in having an accurate Oil Pressure Gauge to monitor the oil and engine.
One last thing wise guy, don't look now, but there's a Ferrari guy running "your" company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergio_Marchionne
:lol: and Chrysler/Jeep still recommends 5W-20 viscosity oil for the 3.7L, how do you explain that there has NOT been a TSB issued changing the viscosity of the oil to lower weights for Chrysler/Jeep vehicles?? Does this mean Sergio Marchionne agrees with me?

If we ask Sergio Marchionne, do you think Jeeps and Ferraris are the same thing, and whats good for a Ferrari, is also good for a Jeep? What do you think he would say?

TopFuel, you have yet to answer the original question? How do you know 0 weight oil is best for the 3.7L when cold? What evidence do you have to contradict the Designers/Testers of the Engine?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
so I went with conventional 5w-20 since the were out of the 5w-20 synthetic ill keep to 5w-20 synthetic next time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,037 Posts
so I went with conventional 5w-20 since the were out of the 5w-20 synthetic ill keep to 5w-20 synthetic next time.
And sorry to belabor you with the long arguments, people have all sorts of theories about oil.

Like I said before, if you use synthetic, the difference between 0W-20 and 5W-20 is so little, I really doubt you would ever run into a problem. Easily the benefits of synthetic would outweight the slight difference in viscosity.

Its the whole, I'll pull a number out of the air, because I know some basic concepts and must know more than the manufacturer now, attitude; that I can't abide. Shop around, the worst problem I have had with 5W-20 Mobil1 is I had to go to the other Walmart in my area to get it. And its far enough away, its probably worth it to pay the extra 5 bucks to get if from the local auto store instead.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
OK, I'll weigh in on this issue on the 3.7 V6. It is critical that you use 5-20 viscosity. Only use API Certified engine oils that meet the requirements of Chrysler's Material Standard MS-6395. MS-6395 contains requirements, not addressed by API Certification, that provide additional protection for Chrysler Group engines. All Chrysler Group gasoline engines, irrespective of model year, should be serviced with API Certified engine oils meeting MS-6395. You would be surprised how many brands do not meet this standard (most of the time you'll have to call the oil company and ask). The 3.7 has no camshaft bushings in the cylinder head, unlike the old engines of years ago. They ride in the aluminum head bore. That is one of the reasons why OEM specifies a light weight motor oil. At engine start-up, you want oil pressure as quickly as possible. If you live in a warm climate, you will probably not experience any long term engine problems. However in colder climates, at freezing levels, lubrication at engine start-up is slower, and cylinder head valve train damage can occur. You want instant oil pressure to critical engine components. I also noticed that the oil filter bypass pressure threshold changed starting in 2009 for the 3.7. From 2006-2008 the filter bypass pressure was 12-15 PSI. Starting in 2009 the bypass pressure was reduced to 8 PSI. In other words if the difference in oil pressure being pumped into the filter and the oil pressure exiting the filter is greater than 8 PSI (for example when the oil is cold or when the filter is very dirty and restricting flow) the bypass valve opens to not restrict flow to the engine. My guess is that Chrysler engineers determined that it was far more important to have full unrestricted oil flow at lower temperatures at start up then to force filtration through the filter for a couple of minutes until the oil warms up starving the valve train of lubrication. As for using 0-20w oil, my thoughts are that if that viscosity was best, then that's what Chrysler would have recommended. So check your filter bypass pressures for the filter that you current use. If you live in Phoenix this probably is never going to be an issue. But if you live in a place like I do where it got down to -29F this winter, it becomes mighty important. Just my 2 cents.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top