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Discussion Starter #1
The attached photo is a photoshop done by an enthusiast, NOT anything official from FCA, do NOT expect the actual vehicle to look like the photoshop rendering.


Over on the www.allpar.com site, they are talking about news from Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) about the upcoming Jeep Grand Wagoneer.

Wagoneer, Trackhawk approved
News | Wagoneer, Trackhawk approved

Where are the Wagoneers coming from?
News | Where are the Wagoneers coming from?

Is Wagoneer grand?
News | Is Wagoneer grand?


Like the Commander, it will be based on the Grand Cherokee.


Since the Durango is based on the Grand Cherokee as well, longer and with a 3rd row seat, some speculate it might just be a restyled Durango with the Grand Cherokee Jeep suspension and drivetrain.


It looks like it will be built on a separate assembly line from the Grand Cherokee and Durango. A RAM truck assembly line. That "could" make it possible the Wagoneer will be even longer or bigger than the Durango, even if its still based on the Grand Cherokee/Durango.


There likely will be two versions, a Wagoneer and a Grand Wagoneer. But FCA reps say they will only differ in trim level, NOT actually size or even different platforms altogether, like past Wagoneers and Grand Wagoneers.


NOT in the articles, but other statements from FCA reps, including the CEO include.
  • It will be better executed than the Commander, avoiding a lot of the criticism of the Commander.
  • The Grand Wagoneer will be a top of the line luxury vehicle that will compete with the best Range Rovers.
  • It will NOT be just a warmed over Grand Cherokee or Durango.
 

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Really! Bring back the old wagoneer name they killed off so long ago. A lot of us have a soft spot for the old wagoners, be interesting to see what it actually becomes.


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that's a photoshopped durango with a wagoneer front end
That's the pic I pulled straight off of the article.

For Chrysler/Jeep's sake, I hope you're right because that vehicle is absolutely hideous.

I see now on the bottom left corner where it says "Wagoneer speculative rendering", so, I'm guessing you are correct - but man, that is a real eye-sore.
 

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Not only that it looks more comfortable on the highway. But jeep does have some cool prototypes that are functional as well as retro styled, (inspired? ).

I'm not a fan of the new Cherokee or some their other offerings. Picked up a commander because I like the way it looks, IMO this is the first time it looks like jeep might revisit the things that make the commander good, I hope they have a real prototype that looks nothing like that picture.


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Discussion Starter #8
The photo is photoshopped by a third party NOT related to FCA in anyway NOR has ever seen the prototype Commander. The only thing they had to go on was that it would be based on the GC and Durango, so they took a Durango and photoshopped old Grand Wagoneer elements on it.

There was a Dealer preview of several new models, no photos, so only by word of mouth there are a few rumors running around.

Best I can tell, the preview may be styled so closely to the original Grand Wagoneer, it might have a controversial appearance. Once even said it looked like a Ford Flex (google it, its awful looking), I wouldn't put much stock in that, I think they were trying to get across the two box styling, like the Commander.
 

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Best I can tell, the preview may be styled so closely to the original Grand Wagoneer, it might have a controversial appearance. Once even said it looked like a Ford Flex
Controversial in what way Mongo?

I know what the Ford Flex looks like, I have seen many of them and they look nothing like the original Grand Wagoneer.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Come on sporty, that thing is butt-ugly.
Again, the photoshopped rendering is just someone's guess that knows nothing what the actual vehicle looks like. Do NOT get wrapped up in some photoshopped photo someone threw up on the internet.
Controversial in what way Mongo?

I know what the Ford Flex looks like, I have seen many of them and they look nothing like the original Grand Wagoneer.
In the way I said, the part of the quote you left out.
...I wouldn't put much stock in that, I think they were trying to get across the two box styling, like the Commander.
The recounting as it was told, it was pretty clear the person that saw it was utterly incapable of describing vehicle styling and its elements, the only thing they kept repeating was, "the closest thing it looks like is a Ford Flex". Judging from the other rumors flying around, people pretty much concluded this person was just incompetent at describing vehicle styling and was saying it had similar styling elements even though overall it doesn't look the same. Likely there is a clear break and ledge at the windows with the body to make a box on top of box appearance. Perhaps broad flat sides. And NOT the sculpted aerodynamic look that so many new vehicles have today. i.e. it may look to much like the styling of the old Grand Wagoneer.
I would imagine it will be sharing the durango platform...
Yes, the Grand Cherokee and Durango currently share a platform and will continue to share it. They will be undergoing a redesign, and the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer will be borne out of the redesign, for 3 vehicles from the same platform. At least, that is what they are implying.


The Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer will just be differences in trim levels, NOT a size difference which for Chrysler was the traditional meaning of tacking the "Grand" onto a model name. Grand was larger.


There is no word on whether it will be bigger than the Durango, total silence, just that the "Grand" doesn't mean it will be bigger than the base model. Although the Grand Cherokee and Durango are built on the same assembly line, since they are the same platform, the Grand Wagoneer will be built on another assembly line that will also do RAM trucks. And this will be after an redesign of the vehicles and an overhaul of the assembly lines. So perhaps there is something in the cards that that the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer will be bigger than the Durango.


Durango's 3rd row seat is an improvement over the Commander's 3rd row seat (I call it a jump seat). But people are hoping Wagoneer will have true 3rd row seat like most big SUV's with them have.
 

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Again, the photoshopped rendering is just someone's guess that knows nothing what the actual vehicle looks like. Do NOT get wrapped up in some photoshopped photo someone threw up on the internet.

In the way I said, the part of the quote you left out.

The recounting as it was told, it was pretty clear the person that saw it was utterly incapable of describing vehicle styling and its elements, the only thing they kept repeating was, "the closest thing it looks like is a Ford Flex". Judging from the other rumors flying around, people pretty much concluded this person was just incompetent at describing vehicle styling and was saying it had similar styling elements even though overall it doesn't look the same. Likely there is a clear break and ledge at the windows with the body to make a box on top of box appearance. Perhaps broad flat sides. And NOT the sculpted aerodynamic look that so many new vehicles have today. i.e. it may look to much like the styling of the old Grand Wagoneer.

Yes, the Grand Cherokee and Durango currently share a platform and will continue to share it. They will be undergoing a redesign, and the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer will be borne out of the redesign, for 3 vehicles from the same platform. At least, that is what they are implying.


The Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer will just be differences in trim levels, NOT a size difference which for Chrysler was the traditional meaning of tacking the "Grand" onto a model name. Grand was larger.


There is no word on whether it will be bigger than the Durango, total silence, just that the "Grand" doesn't mean it will be bigger than the base model. Although the Grand Cherokee and Durango are built on the same assembly line, since they are the same platform, the Grand Wagoneer will be built on another assembly line that will also do RAM trucks. And this will be after an redesign of the vehicles and an overhaul of the assembly lines. So perhaps there is something in the cards that that the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer will be bigger than the Durango.


Durango's 3rd row seat is an improvement over the Commander's 3rd row seat (I call it a jump seat). But people are hoping Wagoneer will have true 3rd row seat like most big SUV's with them have.
O.K. Mongo.

I re-read your entire post - twice, and I still don't see where or how "controversial appearance" comes out of it.

What's the supposed controversial appearance?

That it's going to look too much like the old Wagoneer?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Box atop of a box, instead of the sculpted aerodynamic look, that could be controversial. That is what the Commander looks like and I have met plenty of folks that think the Commander was awful styling. Granted they love the XJ Cherokee, but the Commander, they hate, despite me pointing out the Commander looks just like the XJ Cherokee just a little larger.


So, perhaps it might look like a Durango with the fenders massaged a bit and a new grille, like that photoshopped rendering. Or they may go so much like the original wagoner styling, they have the box atop a box, and that has proven to be controversial.
 

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Mongo said:
Box atop of a box, instead of the sculpted aerodynamic look, that could be controversial. That is what the Commander looks like and I have met plenty of folks that think the Commander was awful styling. Granted they love the XJ Cherokee
I will be completely honest.

To me, a stock height Commander is not visually appealing to look at.

In my eyes, the main reason is because it is a tall, square vehicle that is entirely too low to the ground in relation to it's height.

It's just looks cumbersome & clumsy.

Once you raise a Commander up 2-4 inches, it takes on a completely different visual dynamic that is much more pleasing to the eye and it looks much more proportionately correct.

Obviously, that's just my opinion.
 

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Why is it Jeep fails to notice what the vast number of people who see Grand Wags on the road notice? They love them! There are thriving businesses which are based on restoring and reselling late model Grand Wags. Honestly, those are beautiful cars. Take a while and really look at the lines and curves of that truck. It is iconic and timeless, the twin characteristics of great design. Like Art Deco, just elegant and pleasing to the eye. In my opinion, the closer FCA sticks to the original, the bigger the home run the new truck will be. Please, please, Mike Manley, don't eff it up!
 

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I will be completely honest.

To me, a stock height Commander is not visually appealing to look at.

In my eyes, the main reason is because it is a tall, square vehicle that is entirely too low to the ground in relation to it's height.

It's just looks cumbersome & clumsy.

Once you raise a Commander up 2-4 inches, it takes on a completely different visual dynamic that is much more pleasing to the eye and it looks much more proportionately correct.

Obviously, that's just my opinion.
Along with what I already mentioned above, the other factor that makes stock Commanders look ugly is that the stock tire size is simply too small in relation to the size & height of the vehicle.

Raise it up 2 -4 inches and put on larger tires and the Commander's entire visual dynamic changes and becomes much more appealing.
 
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