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Discussion Starter #1
O.k. , who's Commander is this ? I was looking thru another site about the drug war in Mexico and came across this XK sitting at a 7-Eleven. Poor site, huh ?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
They have every kind of rifle and machine gun , grenades, rpg, you name it. I'm surprised not to see an armored vehicle.
 

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O.k. , who's Commander is this ? I was looking thru another site about the drug war in Mexico and came across this XK sitting at a 7-Eleven. Poor site, huh ?
Where did you find the pic ?
 

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wow. i don't know what else to say.........
 

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I can post the link, there are a lot of weapons pics and some bodies. Is it ok to post the link ?
I think as long as you give a warning it should be ok.
 

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So that really was an armored Commander in the the pic you posted, Smitty. Maybe it did belong to the guy in my post #3.



"Armored Jeep left on the street in Monterrey, Nuevo Leon after its occupants were attacked by gunmen.
This took place 07-2010"


 

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Depending on what they consider "armored", it doesnt take much to armor a vehicle.

At my work, we use what they call "ballistic doors" on the Ford Crown Victorias, which essentially is lining the inside of the door cavity with the same basic material bullet proof vest are made from. It adds couple hundred pounds to the vehicle weight, which would only be about the same as a winch, skid plates etc. on an off-road equipped Commander.

These doors work suprisingly well at stopping even some rifle rounds. It doesn't help the windows any though....and this looks like it needed bulletproof glass also.
 

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It doesn't help the windows any though....and this looks like it needed bulletproof glass also.
Looks to me like it DOES have bullet proof glass. Otherwise it would have shattered. It doesn't look like the glass was completely penetrated. But it is hard to tell for sure from that pic.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The main problem with the material used in vests, like kevlar ,is that pretty much every non-NATO military and para-military force uses the 7.62 round as a primary battle rifle round and that round will blow right thru kevlar like butter.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Looks to me like it DOES have bullet proof glass. Otherwise it would have shattered. It doesn't look like the glass was completely penetrated. But it is hard to tell for sure from that pic.
You're correct in that the side glasses would shatter because they are tempered. the windshield of course wouldn't shatter being that it is laminated. The side glasses could be held in place with window tint to a degree, but I dont think even tint film would hold the glass together with so many bullet holes.
 

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The main problem with the material used in vests, like kevlar ,is that pretty much every non-NATO military and para-military force uses the 7.62 round as a primary battle rifle round and that round will blow right thru kevlar like butter.

Normally, I would agree with you. Our tests with Kevlar vests also show that to be true. However with the balistic doors, they must do something a little different because in tests using doors off wrecked fleet vehicles, 7.62 rounds did not penetrate without some sort of additional damage, such as repeated hits in the same place.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Normally, I would agree with you. Our tests with Kevlar vests also show that to be true. However with the balistic doors, they must do something a little different because in tests using doors off wrecked fleet vehicles, 7.62 rounds did not penetrate without some sort of additional damage, such as repeated hits in the same place.
You know, thinking about it more, maybe since the round first has to penetrate the door skin it doesn't have enough power to penetrate the armour material.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I'd actually like to hear Sal's opinion and experiance of armoured up vehicles, and vests for that matter. I'm sure they use the plates in their vests for the most part though.
 

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The 7.62 burns threw all our soft armor (Kevlar) only the plates we wear stop that round and thats only good for a couple of hits. The windows on the HMMWV are like 3" thick and it still takes a lot of damage to a direct hit but does hold against several hits. Using armored doors in the civilian market I believe its a layer thing. If the round hits something before it hits the Kevlar it will obviously loose a lot of energy and also become deformed which then it looses its penetration effect. Most armor vehicles are only built to protect the occupants for the first seconds of an attack. It's only suppose to allow you enough time to get away. If you can't get out of the kill zone in about 5 seconds your done. Now throw in some armor piercing 7.62 rounds and your done it goes threw almost everything,
 
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