Jeep Commander Forum banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I know there's been a lot of discussion around this topic and wanted to get some feedback.

I installed the AEM Brute Force CAI model 21-8310DP around 5 months ago.
As others have noted, it exposes many areas for water to get into the filter.
I was aware of the risk but really had no idea it was this bad.

I know this all too well because it was confirmed when my shop found river sludge in the valves when my head gasket was replaced 2 weeks ago. They did say it looked recent.

Head Gasket Story
http://www.jeepcommander.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21146

Anyway, we had some heavy rains 5 weeks ago and I'm almost positive thats when it happened. I tried to be cautious but apparently not cautious enough.

The XK should be able to handle some water without causing damage to the engine. Yes, stock XK has no issues but those of us that want to use a CAI have potential issues to address.

Water can easily get into the filter through the areas around the headlight and under the front bumper. Other CAI's look like they have a housing which protects the filter from the back, top and front but still leaves the bottom completely exposed. So any big splashes can easily get into the filter.

Blocking off these areas will fix the water issue but now the filter would almost be suffocated and causing possible performance loss.

A quick thought I had was to relocate the air filter directly into the throttle body then surrounding that filter with a housing of some sort. Then running a new intake tube to the front of the vehicle or through the bottom. This way, its only sucking in outside air and the additional angles would allow for water run-off preventing it from getting into the filter. I have yet to see any design like this.

I'm definitely switching back to the stock filter system for now.

Anyone out there find a solution which prevents water from getting in from the bottom while still getting acceptable performance from the CAI?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Is there room for a shelf style 2 step water blocking system. Or 2 shields with a pattern of drilled holes misaligned from one another.

View attachment 6714


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
I like your shelf idea.

Since the other CAI's seem to block air from the front, the only real option is to somehow allow for air to be forced in from the bottom while idle and when moving.

I do see a possible spot for a tube to squeeze under the bumper and just left of the radiator which could be directed upward and into the shelf.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Decided to hold off on putting the OEM filter assy back on for a bit.

Figured I'd take a stab and blocking that large opening in the bottom. Tossed a $12 mudflap in there and mounted it in a position to allow some air in but still block any water from splashing up.

We'll see how it works. Hoping there will still be enough airflow for the CAI to breathe.

I used the existing stud for the CAI shroud. Drilled a hole through the fender liner and used a rivet as well.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
I recently replied to another thread concerning this and although I haven't experienced any issues related to this that I'm aware of it now concerns me a little. I do and have driven through pretty deep water ( over my tires and a little over the top of the commander door trim) I enjoy getting it off the pavement as much as I can and test its limits with more capable traditional jeeps and they are usually impressed.( I guess they don't see them out of a mall setting to often and neither do I) I've started entertaining the idea of installing the stock intake system again. Sure, it sounds throatier but I've noticed no appreciable increase in performance or fuel economy. Pondering...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I recently replied to another thread concerning this and although I haven't experienced any issues related to this that I'm aware of it now concerns me a little. I do and have driven through pretty deep water ( over my tires and a little over the top of the commander door trim) I enjoy getting it off the pavement as much as I can and test its limits with more capable traditional jeeps and they are usually impressed.( I guess they don't see them out of a mall setting to often and neither do I) I've started entertaining the idea of installing the stock intake system again. Sure, it sounds throatier but I've noticed no appreciable increase in performance or fuel economy. Pondering...
So I emailed AEM about the issue awhile back and here's their reply..
Even AEM is recommending to go back to stock. Problem is, any decent size puddle will surely splash water up through the bottom of the engine compartment.

Im in Illinois and we've had a lot of heavy rains this season. Puddles develop quickly in the far right lanes and it's almost impossible to avoid an occasional splash.

Heck, I'll even shut the engine off when going through the car wash.
All this trouble plus the river sludge found in my engine just isn't worth this "upgrade". I agree, out with the CAI and back to stock for me.. at least until I can find another solution.

Here's their reply..
Dear AEM customer,

Thank you for contacting AEM regarding your 21-8310DP intake system. The installation of this air filter and intake keeps the air filter roughly within the engine bay. AEM does not recommend crossing water nor driving in such conditions to where water may enter the air filter. Driving in such conditions may damage the intake system or the vehicle severely with the possibility of hydro-lock. If plan to continue driving in such conditions where the water level is high enough to reach the air filter in its current position, it is recommended that you remove the intake and return the vehicle to stock or install another system better suited to adverse weather or traversing deep water conditions. Modifying the vehicle to seal up possible water entry areas is also not recommended with the use of our intake system. If you have any further questions, please contact our customer service line 1-800-992-3000.

Thank you for writing,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
I've used K&N CAI on my last three vehicles with no issues short or long term.( I tend to keep them well over 100k) I think just out of caution, I'll go back to my stock intake. If I never took it off road, I'd most likely leave it since I paid for it but I enjoy taking it places most wont take a commander, I will remove it... K&N CAI with less than 7k miles for sale :) sounds good but don't expect a major increase in mpg or hp. It may help some but nothing substantial.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
Well I am glad I read this thread I guess I won't be investing on an AEM cold air intake I will just stick to factory. Thank you guys for your honest opinions and if there is no real gains in mpg then forget about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Might Try the best of both worlds.. K&N makes Upgraded Filters that fit in Stock Locations. Works Awsome in Both my 05 Durango, 10 Camry, and 2000 F-150. im getting rdy to sell the camry and buy an XK come tax time
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Don't be a dumbass and it will be fine. Some additional splash shields are all it takes to make the the AEM 100% safe. Or, run a prefilter sock, they wont help in a submerged situation, but they do repell water droplets.

I've ran homebuilt intakes that put the filters in fresh air locations for many years, never had an issue. Tore many of those engines apart and found them to look quite clean inside. Regular maintenance is worth more than hearsay. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
I don't if any of y'all were here in Arizona about 2-3 weeks or more back. We had a huge rain storm that caused roads to flood up to at least half of my rim under water, I was moving about 35-45 mph when hitting it and it caused a huge splash. I have a AirRam Cold Air Intake and I had absolutely no problems with water, I actually checked it right after driving and it showed no wetness what so ever. I cannot say the same for my friends lowered TL 3.2 :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
My concern for the intake mod would be. How are you gonna hook that black side box back air flow meter prob is my guess. Not the tube line that pushes on. The box with the screw right side Airbox. So hear is what I did . Replaced the air filter high flow . Cut the front snorkel from the grille area it's now a straight air in be sure to leave it long enough I'll take a pic if there are any interested souls. Seems to prove out to be some 20 ponies plus. Along with 18.1 around town 24.3 on the highway sometimes better.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
337 Posts
.....How are you gonna hook that black side box back air flow meter prob is my guess. Not the tube line that pushes on. The box with the screw right side Airbox. So hear is what I did . Replaced the air filter high flow . Cut the front snorkel from the grille area it's now a straight air in be sure to leave it long enough.....

. ?????????????????????????????????????????


I'll take a pic if there are any interested souls...

Yes please.. I'm having a hard time trying to visualize what you are describing.


.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
389 Posts
. ?????????????????????????????????????????





Yes please.. I'm having a hard time trying to visualize what you are describing.


.
I know what box he's referring to, and there's a spot where it's bolted onto my K&N. I don't know how any mod would affect that being there.

And maybe he's referring to using the "snorkel" from the stock system? Or removing it so there's more airflow with the stock system... I'm not sure. A picture would be nice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
I can tell you from first hand experience how this is bad. I have the K&N CAI on my Commander and I went through a very large amount of water on the road during a heavy down pour and ruined my whole motor because water was sucked into the K&N CAI because of its horrible position and no cover. I had to get my whole 5.7L Hemi V8 rebuilt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
Well I guess better safe than sorry I will just stick with buying the programmer then, thank you justblan1984. I rather not risk ruining my motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Well I guess better safe than sorry I will just stick with buying the programmer then, thank you justblan1984. I rather not risk ruining my motor.
Ive already got my Commander back from the shop they rebuilt the whole motor. I actually emailed K&N last night after posting my previous message just to see what they would say and I was quite surprised by their response. I thought I would've either been ignored or got a email back with all kinds of bull. But here'swhat iI received instead...

Sorry to hear about your experience. K&N does have a Warranty and a “Consumer Protection Pledge”. Do you have something such as an oil sample, pictures, the old motor, damaged parts, a write up from the dealer to validate that the K&N Intake was the cause? What part number do you have on your vehicle and how long have you had it on?

*

Following is our “Engine Protection Limited Warranty” :

*

ENGINE PROTECTION LIMITED WARRANTY
Unlike many companies, our warranty for O/E replacement air filters and intake systems does extend beyond the replacement of a defective K&N part. For the original purchaser of the product, our warranty covers any engine damage or related costs incurred as a direct result of the use of a properly installed and maintained K&N O/E automotive replacement air filter or intake system on the specific vehicle for which the product was designed to be used by K&N. This includes reasonable vehicle repair costs directly related to an engine problem caused by the failure of a K&N product. Furthermore, we warrant that using our product will not result in a vehicle warranty denial. K&N will not be responsible for any indirect, consequential, special, contingent, or other damages not listed above.

We will promptly reimburse the consumer for the cost of the repair if a service provider denies warranty coverage as a result of a K&N product or claims that a K&N product has caused harm to your engine or vehicle. In order to receive reimbursement, we require each of the following:

The consumer must provide a written statement or repair order from the dealership or service provider in which the dealership or service provider blames the problem or warranty denial on a K&N product;
The service provider or consumer must provide K&N with all allegedly damaged parts. Many states have laws that require a service provider to retain all parts replaced during a vehicle repair, unless given consent to dispose of the parts by the consumer. K&N will pay the shipping cost to recover these parts; and
The consumer must provide proof of purchase of the K&N product along with cooperation in helping us investigate the claim.
Once these steps have been completed, K&N will contact the service provider and collect evidence to support their claim. In the event we are not provided with sufficient evidence, we reserve the right to reject the claim and will use our best efforts to assist in establishing your rights toward the service provider under warranty or other provisions.

If you do have information, parts, pictures, documents, etc. to send in please let me know and we will work with you.

*

Best Regards,

*

Shannon Guthrie

K&N Engineering

Warranty Department

800-858-3333 X-4103

Fax: 951-826-4003

[email protected]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
Good to hear you are going to get covered but I don't think it is worth the time and money spent for the hp and torque gain.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,913 Posts
Good to hear you are going to get covered but I don't think it is worth the time and money spent for the hp and torque gain.
He is not getting it covered by K&N. Notice that the email say O/E K&N filter. That's the original equipment replacement filter. He replaced his original equipment filter with the K&N CAI, so it will not be covered.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top