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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
In the same off-road trip which I tested the Traction control Off and ON, my friend and I found a hill formed by sand and loose rocks which seemed to be easy.

My friend has a Toyota Fortune powered by a V6 engine 4.0L and rear diff locker, he also added an ARB air-locker in the front diff, so that he have full locking 4WD system.

After couple of attempts which disproved our initial thought about the easiness of hill, he managed to get up the hill using 4Low and both diffs locked. Then I tried also couple of times and managed to get up there using 4Low (Traction Control ON, fuse was in place), This video shows both successful attempts …



Although the real lockers are assumed better than the Traction Control, this simple test can tell that Traction Control can achieve really close performance to the real lockers.

What I concluded from the two tests I made is that QT-II with Traction Control can achieve close performance to real diff lockers, so that adding real lockers might be not cost effective. (Your opinions about this thought is really appreciated)

In other hand, the Traction Control puts alot of load on the break system and break pads which might affect the system negativity after time. but real lockers can stay functional for long
 

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How many people will test thier Commanders in this condition?
Who needs lockers?
Who really cares?
Sell your Commander and get a Toyota.

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This is a dig back at Ahmed for telling me to sell my Commander cause I dont have a need for lockers......:D it is all in fun.....I know it was all in fun....
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
cico7 said:
How many people will test thier Commanders in this condition?
Who needs lockers?
Who really cares?
Sell your Commander and get a Toyota.

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This is a dig back at Ahmed for telling me to sell my Commander cause I dont have a need for lockers......:D it is all in fun.....I know it was all in fun....
no Cico, I told you to sell you Commander becouse you didn't know that it has Traction Control........
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opps ..... this is even worse than not looking for lockers :eek:
 

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Hi guys,

I'm Ahmed's friend, who owns the Toyota Fortuner. I admire traction control in some vehicles, but some makers just don't know how to make them work right. Jeep's works very well, almost as good as Toyota's :)

This hill was really steep; my first attempt failed because I was really scared, I was worried the car would roll over backwards. But when I looked at it from afar, it seemed to be quite safe, so later attempt succeeded.

Traction control does participate in smoothing out the ride, compared with lockers, but in my opinion, nothing compensates for a rough-neck hard core locker, not even Quadra-Drive II. Traction control will suffer from rapid wear and/or overheating of the break pads and it is completely reliant on the electircal system of the car, all of which are not an issue with lockers. You get a blown fuse, and that's it, no traction for you.

But I must say, they do work well.
 

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I know it has traction control......I have traction control..........

but...

Who needs lockers?
Who really cares?
Sell your Commander and get a Toyota.
 

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It all depends on the terrain as to which type of 4x4 system is better. I took the commander in mud the other day and had major issues with the Traction Control kicking in resulting in me getting stuck because I couldnt spin the tires. Id take lockers any day over traction control in the mud. Now obviously sand is a different story but there is no sand where I live. Also the type of tire plays a big role in off roading. Using street tires in the mud totally blows!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The Alternator said:
Hi guys,

I'm Ahmed's friend, who owns the Toyota Fortuner. I admire traction control in some vehicles, but some makers just don't know how to make them work right. Jeep's works very well, almost as good as Toyota's :)

This hill was really steep; my first attempt failed because I was really scared, I was worried the car would roll over backwards. But when I looked at it from afar, it seemed to be quite safe, so later attempt succeeded.

Traction control does participate in smoothing out the ride, compared with lockers, but in my opinion, nothing compensates for a rough-neck hard core locker, not even Quadra-Drive II. Traction control will suffer from rapid wear and/or overheating of the break pads and it is completely reliant on the electircal system of the car, all of which are not an issue with lockers. You get a blown fuse, and that's it, no traction for you.

But I must say, they do work well.
Welcome to the forum :) its nice to you have you here to share the experience.

you should've put up your name as (Ahmed's friend) ;)
 

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This is very interesting. Here in the states, Toyota SUVs may have both ATRAC and lockers (either center and/or rear, depending upon the vehicle) for even greater capability. For example, my 4Runner has a locking center differential and also as ATRAC on both front and rear axles. The FJ Cruiser has an available rear locker with front and rear ATRAC. I'm actually kinda surprised that the Fortuner offers a more old-school 4wd system with a rear locker, but no traction-based capabilities... Either way, it seems to have worked just fine in the video.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
TR4Runner said:
This is very interesting. Here in the states, Toyota SUVs may have both ATRAC and lockers (either center and/or rear, depending upon the vehicle) for even greater capability. For example, my 4Runner has a locking center differential and also as ATRAC on both front and rear axles. The FJ Cruiser has an available rear locker with front and rear ATRAC. I'm actually kinda surprised that the Fortuner offers a more old-school 4wd system with a rear locker, but no traction-based capabilities... Either way, it seems to have worked just fine in the video.
I got you a mate ;)
 

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TR4Runner said:
This is very interesting. Here in the states, Toyota SUVs may have both ATRAC and lockers (either center and/or rear, depending upon the vehicle) for even greater capability. For example, my 4Runner has a locking center differential and also as ATRAC on both front and rear axles. The FJ Cruiser has an available rear locker with front and rear ATRAC. I'm actually kinda surprised that the Fortuner offers a more old-school 4wd system with a rear locker, but no traction-based capabilities... Either way, it seems to have worked just fine in the video.
Hi, its nice to have contact with a 4runner owner, been long since I've been wanting to do so. The fortuner is indeed an old-school vehicle, in terms of traction. But it does come with the state of the art 4L V6, and the almost state of the art 5 speed auto (same as in 4Runner and FJ Cruiser), and permanent four wheel drive with locking Torsen center diff and locking rear diff. But most 4x4 vehicles from Toyota and Nissan here in the Arabian Gulf region don't come with traction control, because people here don't like 'em. Pretty much like in Australia and South Africa. Seems people who live where there are a lot of sand dunes don't like traction control and tech nanies.

The 4Runner equivalent here is the Toyota Prado, which shares almost everything with the 4Runner, apart from the exterior and interior design. That includes engine, transmission, chassis, diffs, transfer case, etc. It's also got ATrac and adaptive suspension with hight adjustment, and it comes with a rear diff-lock as an option.
 

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The Alternator said:
Hi, its nice to have contact with a 4runner owner, been long since I've been wanting to do so. The fortuner is indeed an old-school vehicle, in terms of traction. But it does come with the state of the art 4L V6, and the almost state of the art 5 speed auto (same as in 4Runner and FJ Cruiser), and permanent four wheel drive with locking Torsen center diff and locking rear diff. But most 4x4 vehicles from Toyota and Nissan here in the Arabian Gulf region don't come with traction control, because people here don't like 'em. Pretty much like in Australia and South Africa. Seems people who live where there are a lot of sand dunes don't like traction control and tech nanies.

The 4Runner equivalent here is the Toyota Prado, which shares almost everything with the 4Runner, apart from the exterior and interior design. That includes engine, transmission, chassis, diffs, transfer case, etc. It's also got ATrac and adaptive suspension with hight adjustment, and it comes with a rear diff-lock as an option.

I wasn't a big fan of traction-based 4wd systems either, but I came to really appreciate the capabilities of such systems. There has been a lot of discussion on the 4Runner forum about the capability of our current system to a true locker system that you have on your rig. I've seen countless videos of people in late model 4Runners doing truly amazing things off road. I can see your point if you live in an area where sand is your primary terrain. I live in New York, so snow is my real challenge every winter, which is similar to sand. I've honestly haven't found any real disadvantages to my ATRAC system in the snow, so I've been a happy camper...
 

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TR4Runner said:
I wasn't a big fan of traction-based 4wd systems either, but I came to really appreciate the capabilities of such systems. There has been a lot of discussion on the 4Runner forum about the capability of our current system to a true locker system that you have on your rig. I've seen countless videos of people in late model 4Runners doing truly amazing things off road. I can see your point if you live in an area where sand is your primary terrain. I live in New York, so snow is my real challenge every winter, which is similar to sand. I've honestly haven't found any real disadvantages to my ATRAC system in the snow, so I've been a happy camper...
To tell you the truth, diff locks are useless in snow. The reason is that they can only be activated on low range, if it is factory fitted, and low range is a big no in snow. In snow you need the opposite of low range, you need high range with second start. So TC is the thing you need in snow, plus permanent 4WD with center diff plus ESP (VSC in Toyota). But my front ARB locker does work without low range, so it could be handy in snow. I don't think I'll ever get to try it in such a condition.

The reason people here don't like traction control is that when you want to climb a high sand dune, traction control will render it impossible, because it absorbs all the momentum of the car, an essential factor for driving on sand.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
07JeepXK said:
It all depends on the terrain as to which type of 4x4 system is better. I took the commander in mud the other day and had major issues with the Traction Control kicking in resulting in me getting stuck because I couldnt spin the tires. Id take lockers any day over traction control in the mud. Now obviously sand is a different story but there is no sand where I live. Also the type of tire plays a big role in off roading. Using street tires in the mud totally blows!
thats true, "it depends on the terrain", so if the traction control is not good in deep mud, then for sure diff locks is going to perform better than driving in mud without Traction Control.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Fohn_Jargo said:
Looks like qt2 with the traction control on performed better to me.

You had no wheel spin and your forward progress never slowed.
Yes QT-II performed similar in this case, although I think the Commander slowed down while going up due to Traction Control, but made better Traction and was stable.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The Alternator said:
because people here don't like 'em. Pretty much like in Australia and South Africa. Seems people who live where there are a lot of sand dunes don't like traction control and tech nanies
I wonder why they don't make the Traction Control switchable? why its always ON !!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ahmed said:
What I concluded from the two tests I made is that QT-II with Traction Control can achieve close performance to real diff lockers, so that adding real lockers might be not cost effective. (Your opinions about this thought is really appreciated)
Toyota guys rolled the thread for sometime :mad: ,,,, lets back to the discussion, What do you think about the above opinion?

Would you still go for real lockers for QT-II while you have Traction Control system? is it worth it?
 

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Since you bumped this thread back up, I learned that Toyota is going to offer a factory rear locker on the '09 4Runner, together with ATRAC. Not to get off topic, but I figured I'd mention it...
 
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