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I was trying to check out reviews for JC on Consumer Reports, but it's too new so the only similar platform they have reviews for is GC which they always hammer!! Why is this? I'm a current owner of Jeep Liberty, which mechanically has been flawless for 20k miles and recently purchased a JC 4.7 which i haven't owned long enough to really rate. Do the the owners of Toyota and Honda pay off companies like CR to just overrate their products?

:confused:
 

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No, CR is above board; they don't accept ads or payments. The results are from their tests and owner satisfaction surveys. If you subscribe to CR you will eventually get a survey asking for your opinions on the vehicles you own. The only non-consumable work the GC has ever needed was about $1000 worth of work on the A/C (I forget what, exactly, went bad) and the rear wiper motor went (which apparently is pretty common on the ZJ. However, I've owned two Toyotas, one was a 3-year leased Camry, and one is the wife's current '04 Sienna. Neither (have) had a day in the shop save normal maintenance. So, if you rate my Jeep experience against my Toyota experience, yeah, the Toyota looks pretty good. However, I don't think that I've "slammed" my Jeep; it just has not been AS mechanically reliable as my Toyota. While Jeeps have issues here and there, Toyota, Honda, and the like seem to have almost zero. Fortunately, the American automakers are playing catch-up ball. Fact is, they got sloppy, and the Japanese automakers saw and exploited a weakness in both mileage and reliability.
 

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Most Japanese manufacturers are far ahead of American and European manufacturers when it comes to quality and reliability. That's not a biased opinion, it's a proven fact.... As an American, it kinda annoys me that my country doesn't build the most reliable vehicles in the world, because if they did, I would surely be driving one.

In the meantime, I'll stick with my 4Runner, which has been absolutely flawless so far. Reliability was a big factor for me, because my 4Runner is my only vehicle. I'm confident that it will get me wherever I need to go without going back to the dealership.:D
 

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TR4Runner said:
Most Japanese manufacturers are far ahead of American and European manufacturers when it comes to quality and reliability. That's not a biased opinion, it's a proven fact.... As an American, it kinda annoys me that my country doesn't build the most reliable vehicles in the world, because if they did, I would surely be driving one.

In the meantime, I'll stick with my 4Runner, which has been absolutely flawless so far. Reliability was a big factor for me, because my 4Runner is my only vehicle. I'm confident that it will get me wherever I need to go without going back to the dealership.:D
Lookie here... Your country does build some of the most reliable vehicles in the world. The vast majority of "imports" are built right here in the USA.

As for "imports" being the most reliable and well built, well just so happens that the only two people in my life that I know of who have successfully files Lemon Law complaints owned "imports", one was an Infiniti, and the other a Toyota!

I have owned 7 Jeeps in my life and I have absolutely never been dissatisfied with the quality of any of them. I am thoroughly confident that my Jeeps "will get me wherever I need to go without going back to the dealership". LOL, not exactly true since I have to go to the dealership everyday... :)
 

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ranger31 said:
Lookie here... Your country does build some of the most reliable vehicles in the world. The vast majority of "imports" are built right here in the USA.

As for "imports" being the most reliable and well built, well just so happens that the only two people in my life that I know of who have successfully files Lemon Law complaints owned "imports", one was an Infiniti, and the other a Toyota!

I have owned 7 Jeeps in my life and I have absolutely never been dissatisfied with the quality of any of them. I am thoroughly confident that my Jeeps "will get me wherever I need to go without going back to the dealership". LOL, not exactly true since I have to go to the dealership everyday... :)
That's an interesting point, but not entirely valid. I worked as a Toyota Tech for years, and I can honestly say that the Japanese built Toyotas are more reliable than the American built Toyotas. For example, the Camry is built in both America and Japan. The ones from overseas come off the truck without the side mirrors installed and have covers over their brake rotors. As a tech, it was my job to prep the vehicles regardless of their origin. The Japanese built Camrys were much more reliable than the American built Camrys. How could that possibly be, considering the parts are identicle on both? Well, it comes down to poor manufacturing techniques. Toyota spent tons of cash trying to improve quality in the American factories. Even today, there's a difference in quality between American built and Japanese built Toyotas.

Lucky for me, the 4Runner is only built in Japan. Then again, evenl the American built Toyotas are still very high quality and reliable.
 

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TR4Runner said:
That's an interesting point, but not entirely valid. I worked as a Toyota Tech for years, and I can honestly say that the Japanese built Toyotas are more reliable than the American built Toyotas. For example, the Camry is built in both America and Japan. The ones from overseas come off the truck without the side mirrors installed and have covers over their brake rotors. As a tech, it was my job to prep the vehicles regardless of their origin. The Japanese built Camrys were much more reliable than the American built Camrys. How could that possibly be, considering the parts are identicle on both? Well, it comes down to poor manufacturing techniques. Toyota spent tons of cash trying to improve quality in the American factories. Even today, there's a difference in quality between American built and Japanese built Toyotas.

Lucky for me, the 4Runner is only built in Japan. Then again, evenl the American built Toyotas are still very high quality and reliable.
Im happy for you;) . enjoy
 

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I have a friend who successfully filed a lemon law and had his Discovery bought back.
 

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I hear a lot of anectodal reports of Japanese cars being more reliable bla bla bla.
I've had one of each and see zero difference. It may have been true about 10 years ago but the US manufacturers are back up to speed.
Also, Consoomers Reeports, are for tree-hugging yuppies that buy hybrids and decafs and not off-road driving triple-Americano-drinkers.
 

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bing said:
I hear a lot of anectodal reports of Japanese cars being more reliable bla bla bla.
I've had one of each and see zero difference. It may have been true about 10 years ago but the US manufacturers are back up to speed.
Also, Consoomers Reeports, are for tree-hugging yuppies that buy hybrids and decafs and not off-road driving triple-Americano-drinkers.
Hmmm... sounds like living with a fallacy to me. Your experience is one vs one, so statistically speaking, that's about as weak of a comparison as possible.

Take a look at any subjective comparison, such as JD Powers and Associates, if you don't have any faith in Consumer Reports. Statistics don't lie.
 

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Statistics may not lie, but they can certainly be skewed in multiple ways. Look at all the free gifts and preferential treatment that is offered when you have a problem, before you turn in your new vehicle delivery experience survey.

But, generally, I would agree. Patterns are patterns, and generally show trends of reliability and quality.
 

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I worked at a Chrysler/ Dodge/ Jeep dealer for 25 years starting in the late 70's. I would say that American made car companies have had their ups and downs, but they are still great cars.

My friend recently bought a Honda Ridgeline and he has had it in the shop 4 times already. One day he started his car, and it wouldn't shift out of park, and all of the electronics didn't work. He had the car towed to the local dealership, and the dealership wouldn't even pay for the towing bill! It didn't even have 1000 miles on it yet!

My Other Friend bought a Hyundai Sante Fe and one day the brakes went out on it.

I have owned Chrysler, Dodge, and jeep vehicles for the past 30 years, and no major mechanical problems with any of my cars. I have never really trusted the Consumer Reports, as they seem to like only certain cars. This year all of their top car/ trucks are foreign! It is an american company, so they are basically saying that American cars are pieces of crap, and that is simply not true.
 

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No, and while there are exceptions on both sides of the aisle, the imports HAVE done better in terms of reliability. A co-worker's VW has had all kinds of problems, but I have had next to none on my GC. However, when taken from OWNER SURVEYS, CR does indeed conclude that the American automakers still are not quite equal to the Japanese in particular. They don't say that American cars are bad - but remember that they quote AVERAGES, not absolutes. So if a Jeep has worse than average reliability, remember it is being compared with vehicles that have excellent records - and someone has to be on top in any contest. If 5 excellent cars - all good value for the money - are placed in a list, one MUST come out last. It doesn't mean that it's any less of a car - just not BETTER than the others.
 

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Stats can tell whatever story you want them to. I am not questioning CR's credibility or the results of owner surveys but what if people thaat drive American cars are more particular or whiney than people that drive Japanese cars. I doubt that is the case but what if it is. I know many people, myself included, that will fix a minor problem rather than go back to the dealer or any garage. CR does not consider how different people consider a problem. Just a thought.
 

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JoeTampa said:
That, plus the face that more people will complain than compliment about anything. Therefore, problems get magnified.
That is a very true statement. Many more complainers out there and therefore a minor problem on a vehicle can be exaggerated by some people and all of a sudden the reliability on that particular vehicle is terrible.
Where does CR get their data? From people and we all know how reliable that can be.
 

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JoeTampa said:
That, plus the face that more people will complain than compliment about anything. Therefore, problems get magnified.
Very true, but don't you think that is true of any brand?

It seems that the most vocal people are people who are angry because of problems. That said, you can use a message forum such as this one to compare with other message forums (for competing brands) to estimate the reliablity/problems.

In other words, if the message forum from brand A is full of quality/reliability complaints from owners, and the message forum for brand B has a significantly lower amount of reliability/quality complaints, then it's logical that brand B has less reliability/quality problems than brand A.

However, if brand A is an all-new vehicle, and brand B has been out for a few years, the information might not be accurate, so it's important to consider that as well.
 

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Exactly. Remember also that people have varying opinions on what is good, bad, and indifferent. This is loosely akin to polling your neighbors or reading a forum such as this for data. Heck, someone reading the "Dealer Service/Problems" board here might conclude that the Commander is problematic. It, however, does not account for the positive experiences of owners, nor represent anything more than the participants of this forum. The aggregate truth will always be both different and difficult to ascertain.
 

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JoeTampa said:
Exactly. Remember also that people have varying opinions on what is good, bad, and indifferent. This is loosely akin to polling your neighbors or reading a forum such as this for data. Heck, someone reading the "Dealer Service/Problems" board here might conclude that the Commander is problematic. It, however, does not account for the positive experiences of owners, nor represent anything more than the participants of this forum. The aggregate truth will always be both different and difficult to ascertain.
That's exactly why Consumer Reports uses AVERAGES for their reliability data.

If 5000 owners of vehicle A respond to their suvey, and only 100 of them report any reliabilty issues, is it much different when 1000 owners of vehicle B respond and 100 of them complain about reliability issues.

I have faith in Consumer Reports, simply because they are publishing data that comes directly from the owners of the vehicles. JD Powers is the same.... and they have strikingly similar results to Consumer Reports.
 

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Yep. And again, while Consumer Reports is a great guide, it is only that. I subscribe and use it, but I don't immediately dismiss a product that is not their Best Buy just because it might be towards the middle of the pack. I do, however, look at a long-term reports of vehicles where they discuss survey reports in detail. I bought a washing machine that was about 1/3 of the way down their list at the time and haven't had a day's worth of trouble. Then again, when I was a kid and bought a car that turned out to be a POS (a Chevy, incidentally, and the main reason while I am still soured on GM), CR stated in pretty plain language that the vehicle in question was... Well... In question. :) Had I read it beforehand, I might not have bought it. The Jeeps I have seen in CR have never been body slammed like that car rightfully was.
 
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