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I don't want to start an argument and I'm not picking on any one service I just want to make an observation that most people don't think about and since I myself have been in well over a hundred fire fights I know what I'm talking about. Due to the frequency of our deployments ( all services) and lack of dwell time we are sending our guys over there with less and less training. I see it all the time units don't have the time to train there men and the experienced guys are leaving in droves. I know I'm lucky because of my unit not being a normal unit but even we have seen a drop in the standard of our troops. Some say the fighting is getting worse and that's why were loosing so many men lately. I say maybe that has some truth to it but I believe a lot of it is lack of training and experienced people. It's just a shame, there was so much going wrong in that video it made me sad and angry.
 

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I don't want to start an argument and I'm not picking on any one service I just want to make an observation that most people don't think about and since I myself have been in well over a hundred fire fights I know what I'm talking about. Due to the frequency of our deployments ( all services) and lack of dwell time we are sending our guys over there with less and less training. I see it all the time units don't have the time to train there men and the experienced guys are leaving in droves. I know I'm lucky because of my unit not being a normal unit but even we have seen a drop in the standard of our troops. Some say the fighting is getting worse and that's why were loosing so many men lately. I say maybe that has some truth to it but I believe a lot of it is lack of training and experienced people. It's just a shame, there was so much going wrong in that video it made me sad and angry.
I agree 100% with you. We are all expected to more with less. That totally includes good training. It's a training issue, but also a retention one. I'm in for life, or until they kick me out. Which ever comes first. :grim:
 

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Congratulations Sal you are officially a badass. You should post a picture of your ribbons. What exactly did you see? I saw Marines shooting and a lot of dust.
 

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I must say I know a gun fight in war is different than law enforcement but I did wonder why they kept firing when it did not appear they were taking fire and they had no clear target in sight. I was not there so I will not play monday morning quarterback, I am sure there was more happening then I can tell from the video but it seemed like a lot of wasted ammo to me.
 

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It did seem like a lot of wasted ammo but the max effective range on the SAW with the ACOG might be more then what that camera was seeing. The rate of fire of that weapon they could have definitely wasted a lot more and they did not.

I was just curious about what Sal saw as far as TTPs or SOPs or something
 

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What was the story in the news the other day, something like 20K round fired per kill ? Sal, are you still going to have to retire ? I know you said you would try to make it through the holidays but you wouldn't be able to do another deployment ?
 

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I think Marines just know how to lay down suppressive fire ! LOL ! :bowdown: The only reason they stopped firing was so they could change out that guy's barrel !
 

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I am sorry, i am not in the military so i cant critique the video, nor can i tell whats going on, can someone enlighten me on what they were doing that bothers some of you? Again, no disrespect or ignorance, just curious.
 

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Its very hard to see who or what the guys are firing at in those videos. When someone is firing at a target that is 500 , 600, 800 meters away, the camera just cant see that. So to the average person's view, they are just hosing the area and wasting ammo instead of taking proper aim and hitting the target. Spray and pray. Now, I haven't been there myself so this is just my .02 worth. I would be doing the same thing probably. :rofl:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well, I usually know better then to watch this stuff I still can't make it threw Black Hawk Down I have to turn it off. I did make it threw the holidays but yes I'am being medically retired (kicked out) so no more deployments for me. Based on the optics as well as other equipment I don't think there marines. I can't tell on my screen the color and type of uniform there wearing but they all had rhino mounts on there helmet's and the last time I mixed up with the marines only squad leaders carried night vision this may have changed. The SAW also had a short barrel another thing marines didn't carry also the SAW had what appeared to be PEQ15 pretty modern hardware for the marines. Like I said been a while since I played around with the marines but thats a lot changes since then.

As far as what I saw.
1. All machine guns are fired at three rates of fire. sustained,rapid and cyclic. That includes the 50cal they had. These rates are for conserving ammo as well as the weapon it's self. None of the automatic weapons being fired were given any rates of fire any distance or direction. Also all your automatic weapons don't fire at once big no no. I have combat time as a 240 gunner and as a weapons squad leader among other positions. If you run out of ammo or break weapons then what are you going to do. None of these things happen not one command given.

2. Cover and concealment. Obviously concealment not needed here but they had cover which was not used properly. Look at the dude firing the small D. Count the amount of seconds he exposed himself from the chest up, 11 seconds thats how many. uncalled for lack of training with the weapon and lack of clear concise direction and distance he was going to shoot at.

3. Command and Control. The biggest thing was a lack of this. There should of been a lot of communication going back and forth from the shooters and the NCO's which there were none. and before someone says there so bas a** they don't need to I've fought beside the best dudes in this country and they communicate everything.

I'm not bashing anyone It just upsets me because there is no time to get new guys trained right. To keep us some what sane you have to give us download time when we get back which leaves even less time for proper training. The week before my first deployment I shot 100,000 rounds out of my 240B. The week before my last deployment I had 30 rounds to zero and confirm. NCO's are burning out and leaving so joes are getting promoted faster so there is less experience leading soldiers out there.
 

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Sal, what are the regs regarding video cameras and posting videos on the internet ? This guy looks to have the camera mounted on his kevlar but I've seen quite a few videos where the guy is running around with a camera in his hand, concentrating more on filming than he is on his job. Does the Army care if you post the vids ?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
can someone enlighten me on what they were doing that bothers some of you?
I'm not up set with the soldiers just the situation were put in at no fault to our own and which get us hurt and worse.

I would be doing the same thing probably. :rofl:
No because I would put my boot on your neck and make you do it right:stickpoke:

The more we sweat in training, the less we bleed in war....
Well put and 100% true.

Sal, what are the regs regarding video cameras and posting videos on the internet ? This guy looks to have the camera mounted on his kevlar but I've seen quite a few videos where the guy is running around with a camera in his hand, concentrating more on filming than he is on his job. Does the Army care if you post the vids ?
Not sure about combat footage I have tons of it myself and have posted some of it in the past. During some not so dangerous moments my guys to have filmed stuff. We were also issued helmet cams were some of the footage comes from.

I agree 100% with you. We are all expected to more with less. That totally includes good training. It's a training issue, but also a retention one. I'm in for life, or until they kick me out. Which ever comes first. :grim:
Enjoy every minuet of it bro.

Congratulations Sal you are officially a badass. You should post a picture of your ribbons. What exactly did you see? I saw Marines shooting and a lot of dust.
Not sure how to take this I don't want to take it the wrong way. We tend to take things we read based on our moods as well as trying to judge the tone of the words. I have plenty of ribbons more then some less then others. I take my job seriously and not being able to be there every second till we all come home is hard. Another reason I no better then to hit the play button on these videos.
 

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I dont know if it was a personal camera or combat camera but combat camera is a specific MOS or billet in the Marine Corps to take pics and vids for training purposes. This video looks pretty amateur.

Sal don't take it the wrong way. You are right lack of communication. No "talking guns" between machine guns either. No ADDRAC was given. I did not see any fire plan sketches in the video either. No little sticks at each machine gun marking lateral limits. Lots of things are definitely missing.

I am an MP currently working PMO (non deployable) and I have the training (previously deployed) all Marines get in MCT whether they are deployable or not on all weapon systems and rates of fire. Infantry units have a lot more then I do obviously and there is no way of knowing if those are grunts or admin guys. If all of our special forces could fight the war there might be some more enjoyable videos coming out but thats not the case. Everybody gets stuck in it no matter how much training they get. Some guys come straight from the schoolhouse and find out they are deploying 2 weeks after they hit the fleet without any of the other work ups. All they have is what they got from boot camp and MCT. The units that do have additional training are cutting down training time. I am at a training base now and the current unit heres training got cut from a month to 10 days.

As far as the SAW they all have ACOGs, PEQs, shorter barrels and collapsible stocks now, even in the Marine Corps.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I want to say again I was not bashing any unit only the situation we all find our selves in. As USMCMP says he's also seeing training time getting shorter. We deploy for at least 12 months here and we only get 12 months back at Bragg. Sounds like a lot of time but it really is not with out driving guys into the ground or the mental ward. If just one person reads this and has a better understanding of what were going threw it's worth it.

USMCMP, I am glad to hear the the marines have caught up with some of the gear I genuinely felt sorry for the marines not having the best tools to get the job done.
 

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We the Forgotten
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