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No body has installed this lift yet, there are some with the 4" superlift that you can use for comparison. This is a rather tall lift and you will need to make several other mods to pull it off. Read throughthe suspension section.
 

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No body has installe dthis lift yet, there are some with the 4" superlift that you can use for comparison. This is a rather tall lift and you will need to make several other mods to pull it off. Read throughthe suspension section.
Actually the Rusty's 4.5 inch lift is a complete kit like the superlift suspension kit. No other mods are needed.
 

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Actually the Rusty's 4.5 inch lift is a complete kit like the superlift suspension kit. No other mods are needed.
He was talking about resetting the vehicles geometry the same way you have to with the Superlift.
 

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He was talking about resetting the vehicles geometry the same way you have to with the Superlift.
That's not how I read what he wrote. He said you would need several other mods to pull it off.
 

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He will also have to consider UCA's, resetting the vehicles geometry, trimming fender wells because you know he will need larger tires, etc.

a 4.5 lift is certainly doable, but you will have to do much more to pull it off!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So is the question whether on not to install it just for the additional .5 of an inch.....hmmm

I'm going to try and call to get more information. I will post back my findings.
 

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So is the question whether on not to install it just for the additional .5 of an inch.....hmmm
You will still need to do all that stuff with a 4" lift.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Good point. Im just worried about the additional stress on the ball joints and control arms. The angle must be brutal with this 4.5" kit.
 

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Good point. Im just worried about the additional stress on the ball joints and control arms. The angle must be brutal with this 4.5" kit.
That is the point I was trying to make, There will be many other parts of the Commander that will need adjustment with a large lift. I would not let that stop you if you can afford to keep modding and fixing it, but there are very few products available to fix these things that may come up.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That is the point I was trying to make, There will be many other parts of the Commander that will need adjustment with a large lift. I would not let that stop you if you can afford to keep modding and fixing it, but there are very few products available to fix these things that may come up.

So your saying either way 4" or 4.5" there will be issues you will have to deal with?
 

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So your saying either way 4" or 4.5" there will be issues you will have to deal with?
Yes, the same concerns come with either lift. They are not impossible to overcome, but you need to be prepared to shell out around $5,000 for the lift, tires, wheels or spacers, UCA's shocks (if not included), electronics, etc.

If I had the money I would do it, but like most of us here, I do not have the money to keep up with the needs of a large lift.
 

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The exact issue here is something I've always had a hard time with. Do you spend 4-5K to make your XK stand out against the rest or just do leveling kit, tires and skids? The money you save would score you a used rigged TJ that you can ring out on the trails and feel no remorse about.

Although if $4-$5,000 isn't a lot of money to you, got for it!!
 

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He will also have to consider UCA's, resetting the vehicles geometry, trimming fender wells because you know he will need larger tires, etc.

a 4.5 lift is certainly doable, but you will have to do much more to pull it off!
Good point. Im just worried about the additional stress on the ball joints and control arms. The angle must be brutal with this 4.5" kit.
That is the point I was trying to make, There will be many other parts of the Commander that will need adjustment with a large lift. I would not let that stop you if you can afford to keep modding and fixing it, but there are very few products available to fix these things that may come up.
So your saying either way 4" or 4.5" there will be issues you will have to deal with?
Yes, the same concerns come with either lift. They are not impossible to overcome, but you need to be prepared to shell out around $5,000 for the lift, tires, wheels or spacers, UCA's shocks (if not included), electronics, etc.

If I had the money I would do it, but like most of us here, I do not have the money to keep up with the needs of a large lift.

Ummm i dont think any of you guys understand how a IFS (Suspension Lift) actually works. Now keep in mind I said Suspension lift, I didnt say spacer lift nor did I say coil lift. For the actual suspension lifts, new crossmembers are provided which lowers the attachment point of the LCA's. New steering knuckes come with the kit which are approx. 3 inches longer then the stock one's to make up for the new distance between the LCA and UCA. Also the attachment point for the tie rods are moved further up the steering knuckle to keep the proper geometry of the steering. Drop down brackets are also supplied to lower to front differential so that the cv-axles maintain the stock angle. And lastly, longer sway bar end links are provided to make up for the new distance between the sway bar and the lower control arm where the connect to. All of this puts the suspension/steering geometry back to stock, and some times even better then stock.

You do not need HD UCA's to run any of these kits so im not sure why people are saying you need them. You would only need them if you were to add additional spacers above the strut to provide more lift.

You will only have to trim depending on what size tire you go with and the offset/back spacing of the wheel you go with. If you were to use the AEV wheels that were designed for the Superlift kit and 33 inch tires you wouldnt need to do any trimming. When people add wheels with a less amount of back spacing then you will ahve to do a lot of trimming because it pushes the tires far outside of the wheel well. So it all depends on what wheel you go with.

As for the steering geomety, once you install the lift all you have to do is take it a shop and have a front end alignment. That is all.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ummm i dont think any of you guys understand how a IFS (Suspension Lift) actually works. Now keep in mind I said Suspension lift, I didnt say spacer lift nor did I say coil lift. For the actual suspension lifts, new crossmembers are provided which lowers the attachment point of the LCA's. New steering knuckes come with the kit which are approx. 3 inches longer then the stock one's to make up for the new distance between the LCA and UCA. Also the attachment point for the tie rods are moved further up the steering knuckle to keep the proper geometry of the steering. Drop down brackets are also supplied to lower to front differential so that the cv-axles maintain the stock angle. And lastly, longer sway bar end links are provided to make up for the new distance between the sway bar and the lower control arm where the connect to. All of this puts the suspension/steering geometry back to stock, and some times even better then stock.

You do not need HD UCA's to run any of these kits so im not sure why people are saying you need them. You would only need them if you were to add additional spacers above the strut to provide more lift.

You will only have to trim depending on what size tire you go with and the offset/back spacing of the wheel you go with. If you were to use the AEV wheels that were designed for the Superlift kit and 33 inch tires you wouldnt need to do any trimming. When people add wheels with a less amount of back spacing then you will ahve to do a lot of trimming because it pushes the tires far outside of the wheel well. So it all depends on what wheel you go with.

As for the steering geomety, once you install the lift all you have to do is take it a shop and have a front end alignment. That is all.
Great info here, thank you for explaining. I'm going to try and get more information on the 4.5" lift from Rusty's. Is there a way to pull out more from a 4" super lift as in some 2" spacers. I wont find out until I start the entire project.
 

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Great info here, thank you for explaining. I'm going to try and get more information on the 4.5" lift from Rusty's. Is there a way to pull out more from a 4" super lift as in some 2" spacers. I wont find out until I start the entire project.
BTW I didnt mean to include you when I said you guys have no clue what your talking about. You jsut sort of got caught in the middle.

There are a few guys on the forum who have either installed the OME coils or extra spacers along with the 4 inch superlift to get additional lift. The guys that used the OME coils cut off one complete coil so that the suspension angles werent to extreem. Going this route id highly recommend geting HD UCA's since the stock ball joint/UCA will now be at a bad angle. This will also effect the angles of everything else but it is possible to do it. IowaCommander added (2) 1/4 inch spacers up from and got an extra inch of clearance on the front end.
 

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JeepLab - 07JeepXK is spot on with his explanation. I don't know much about the 4.5" kit you mentioned and I have not seen anyone using it. I have the 4" Superlift and the angles of everything except the front driveshaft are equivalent-ish to stock. My UCA/balljoint angle is better than when using a 2" spacer lift. All that being said, I need a little more boost on the front since the winch and bumper now have the stock front coils begging for mercy.

My dilemma was this - do I add coils or do I do an additional spacer? The strut itself is what will limit the downward travel of the front suspension when you lift a wheel. The strut is designed to reach that downward limit before the upper balljoint reaches its angular limit. When a spacer is added above the strut, everything is pushed slightly downward (and thus the jeep slightly upward) to achieve the lift. With this method, some of the upper and lower balljoint inherent downward travel is used. The strut itself however, has all of its available downward travel as before. When you see an upper balljoint failure, it is because the balljoint reached its angular limit before the strut was fully extended. The resultant force pops the ball out of the joint and the knuckle separates from the UCA. Ask Phunkeydude about this, he has some knowledge on the subject!

As another method, one can add longer coils to also achieve lift. With this method, some of the balljoint's inherent downward travel is used as with a spacer lift, but some of the downward travel of the strut is also used. So with longer coils, there is less risk (if any) to the upper balljoint because the strut will still limit the downward travel before you reach a failure point on the balljoint. With a coil lift, the suspension will be riding at say 35% downward travel available as opposed to stock if we say it had 50% of its downward travel available. I am probably not explaining it well and I apologize if I've muddied the waters.

I've already tried a set of Old Man Emu coils with my 4" lift and without knowing I needed to cut off a coil, had them installed. The front end barely went together and it was sitting about another 4" higher for 8" of lift. The front suspension, while sitting on the ground, was at full maximum droop and the knuckles were within 1/4" of the coils. Not a good situation. I've since sold the springs to Phunkeydude who cut off a coil and seems to be finding success with that setup.

Still needing some lift, I contacted Deaver Suspension in California to make me a set of custom coils. I sent them a brand new factory XK spring because I only wanted 1 or 2 inches at the wheel. I also wanted them to match the factory spring ends so they would fit the strut right. The fabbed up a pair of coils that are the same unloaded height as the stocker, but they are made of very slightly thicker wire for load carrying and one more coil than stock for an almost equivalent spring rate. I'm hoping to have them installed this week. I'll do a write up on it once I get the chance with pictures and measurements in case this is a route that someone else wants to try. I will then have a Superlift 4" kit, boosted slightly with a coil for about 5-6" total front lift, without using spacers. My CV/tie-rod/balljoint angles should be right about what you see with someone using the RR 2.25" lift.

Good luck on your choice, but I will put a plug in for Superlift - it has been a fantastic kit.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Kmax thanks for the info, and thanks to everyone else who is sharing info. Im really interested to hear how the new coils work out. I read all about phunkydude's horror story.....that's actually what has prompted me to ask so many questions. My jeep is arriving in the next 2 weeks so Im pretty excited. Soon after I will start modding. Im just trying to read as much as I can to become familiar with any common issues resulting from any lift or modifications etc.
 

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JeepLab -

here's couple shots showing the UCA/balljoint angle with both lifts.

When my XK had the RR 2.25" lift...



And now with the Superlift...



So there is a little room to move up (though Superlift of course does not recommend modification) with the 4" kit as you had expressed interest in doing.
 

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Thanks for the pictures kmax. Im not sure why people posted in this thread saying that you would need HD UCA's for a 4-4.5 inch lift. The ball joint angle is better then that of a XK with a 2 inch list as you just proved.
 
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