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Discussion Starter #1
Before you all shout at me I know this is commander site and I do have a commander.
We are in the UK so this question relates to the euro patriot not the usa

My son wants to buy a patriot but there seems to be some confusion about how the four wheel drive " freedom drive 2 " works.

Does the ABS system act like the quadra drive braking a spinning wheel to force torque to wheels with grip

We know you can lock the diff to force both axles to receive 50/50 torque, but the reports seem to say that disengage's above 10 mph.

Presumably back to the electronic's

Thanks for any help and indulgence
 

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See this---> http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/how_systems_work/freedom_drive_2/

Freedom-Drive II®
An electronically controlled coupling, which is attached to the rear differential, is the heart of the Freedom Drive II system. The electronic control module processes signals from the wheel speed sensors and the accelerator pedal to determine how much torque to transfer to the rear wheels, then sends an electrical current to the ECC that is proportional to the amount of torque required. Recommended for true off-road situations including steep grades, wheel lift and rock or log climbing, the Freedom Drive II Off-Road Package includes a second-generation continuously variable transaxle with a 19:1 crawl ratio (CVT2L) that engages when the off-road mode is activated.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
son wants to buy a patriot

Thanks for the reply and the link.

First I cocked up its only the freedom drive 1 that is available in uk

Yes we had already been to the link, but that only tells you what happens when you put the lock in.

It does not tell what happens after you have put it in and got moving

Also there is no mention about the abs system applying the brakes to send torque to the wheels with grip

Does it have this on freedom drive 1 or not

Appreciate your interest and feed back though

Thanks
 

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Take this with a grain of salt, because it is based on some older accounts and some assumptions, BUT:

The Patriot is based on the Mini-Van Platform. Mini-vans have had a reputation for years as being unreliable, especially the 4WD versions. So it stands to reason, a lot of the design and components are carried over and the Patriot may have a similiar reliability record as the mini-vans.

CMIIW, but the Patriot has a Transverse FWD transaxle, with the notorious unreliable mini-van transmission, with a right angle TO added to it, to feed torque to the rear drivetrain.

At least in the older mini-vans I have heard more than several first hand accounts this drivetrain was always breaking and requiring expensive repairs.

As well, I have owned 2 Chrysler Mini-Vans (only FWD), and although very happy with them, when I hit 175k U.S. Miles on both, they just kept breaking, as soon as I fixed one thing, another thing would break.

Again, take this with a grain of salt, I'm relating years old information, and carrying over a lot from one platform to another, I could be very wrong. BUT, it would worry me enough, I would do research into the relibiality record of the Patriots and its 4WD system before I bought, make sure its NOT the same as the mini-van's version was several years earlier, and they did improve it.

AFA Freedom Drive II, I don't know the particulars, the Jeep website does a pretty poor job explaining how the different 4wd systems work IMO. I "believe" all the Jeeps have the Electronic Brake Control System (EBCS) and many have just open differentials, the EBCS will create a virtual LSD for you. If a wheel loses traction, and spins, the EBCS will operate the ABS to use the brakes at the spinning wheel only, to slow it down and redirect the power back toward the other wheels and keep you moving.
 

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AFA Freedom Drive II, I don't know the particulars, the Jeep website does a pretty poor job explaining how the different 4wd systems work IMO. I "believe" all the Jeeps have the Electronic Brake Control System (EBCS) and many have just open differentials, the EBCS will create a virtual LSD for you. If a wheel loses traction, and spins, the EBCS will operate the ABS to use the brakes at the spinning wheel only, to slow it down and redirect the power back toward the other wheels and keep you moving.
From what I can tell the Freedom I and Freedom II do not use the brakes.
 

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Mongo,
The Patriot and Compass are variations of the Caliber platform.....also available with AWD till last year.

All three are built on the same assembly line in Belvidere Illinois........Other than the engines pointing East and West there is little commonality between these and the FWD vans.

The Freedom-Drive I is just the AWD or rear drive adaptor attached to Chryslers CVT autotrans or 5 speed manual.
The versions with F/D II are CVT only.

To the OP......It is my understanding the wheel speed sensors determine if a wheel is slipping and the appropriate brake is applied to force power to the other wheel with traction on the F/D I and F/D II systems.
There is a locking provision for 50/50 power split on the F/D II system......I am unable to get much info as far as the locking provision releasing itself at a given speed.

Rob
 

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Mongo,
The Patriot and Compass are variations of the Caliber platform.....also available with AWD till last year.

All three are built on the same assembly line in Belvidere Illinois........Other than the engines pointing East and West there is little commonality between these and the FWD vans.

The Freedom-Drive I is just the AWD or rear drive adaptor attached to Chryslers CVT autotrans or 5 speed manual.
The versions with F/D II are CVT only.

To the OP......It is my understanding the wheel speed sensors determine if a wheel is slipping and the appropriate brake is applied to force power to the other wheel with traction on the F/D I and F/D II systems.
There is a locking provision for 50/50 power split on the F/D II system......I am unable to get much info as far as the locking provision releasing itself at a given speed.

Rob
Rooby, I don't think they use the brake. If you go to the jeep website and watch the explanations of how the different systems work they say the transmission somehow controls the function on FDI & II. And on QTI they definitely use the term 'brake traction control."
 

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Rooby, I don't think they use the brake. If you go to the jeep website and watch the explanations of how the different systems work they say the transmission somehow controls the function on FDI & II. And on QTI they definitely use the term 'brake traction control."
Well,
I am basing my thoughts off a few known values.....however, there may be more to the design.
For example, since there is no limited slip available, the braking system would have to play a part in shifting power to the left or right wheel of each axle based on speed sensor information, just like a QT-I or QT-II or QD system (to a small degree) when not in 4 lock.
In addition, Jeep says the F/D I and II systems have a selectable lock for off road type situations......I suspect it is similar in function to the transfer case found in some of the older Jeeps that had a 4HI/Lock option.....BTW my H-3 had this capability.

But, I too watched the sites description of the systems and, as usual, so vague that one must draw some of their own conclusions.

Because of that, my response ended up being a bit uh.....uninformative I guess.

I suppose, if Jeep had really come up with something that 'electronically' can 'see' a slip situation developing they would blow their own horn much louder.......and certainly not put a cutting edge system on a cheeze ball front drive chassis (my opinion)

Like the OP.....sure would be nice if Jeep just said how it worked and left the smoke and mirrors at home.

Rob
 

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Well,
I am basing my thoughts off a few known values.....however, there may be more to the design.
For example, since there is no limited slip available, the braking system would have to play a part in shifting power to the left or right wheel of each axle based on speed sensor information, just like a QT-I or QT-II or QD system (to a small degree) when not in 4 lock.
In addition, Jeep says the F/D I and II systems have a selectable lock for off road type situations......I suspect it is similar in function to the transfer case found in some of the older Jeeps that had a 4HI/Lock option.....BTW my H-3 had this capability.

But, I too watched the sites description of the systems and, as usual, so vague that one must draw some of their own conclusions.

Because of that, my response ended up being a bit uh.....uninformative I guess.

I suppose, if Jeep had really come up with something that 'electronically' can 'see' a slip situation developing they would blow their own horn much louder.......and certainly not put a cutting edge system on a cheeze ball front drive chassis (my opinion)

Like the OP.....sure would be nice if Jeep just said how it worked and left the smoke and mirrors at home.

Rob
According to their description and demo it does not do left and right but only front axle and rear axle.
 

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The Freedom Drive II-equipped Patriot uses a continuously variable transmission with a low range instead of a traditional two-speed transfer case, but has Jeep's "Trail Rated" badging, signifying that it "has been designed to perform in five categories of off-road conditions: traction, ground clearance, maneuverability, articulation, and water fording." The Freedom Drive II[3] Patriot is among the most offroad-capable vehicles in its class, in part to the presence of the off-road Brake Lock Differential (BLD). This allows the vehicle to maintain forward motion if one or two wheels lose traction by selectively and aggressively applying brakes to the spinning wheels. This is an improvement over a conventional AWD system; a vehicle intended for onroad use with open differentials only would be stranded if there is a loss of traction in one front and one rear wheel at the same time. While the BLD is not available in The Freedom Drive I[3] options, traction control does come standard. For Europe and Australia a 2.0 L (1968 cc; 120 cid; 140ps) Volkswagen-manufactured diesel engine is fitted along with a 6-speed manual gearbox. All EU cars are fitted as standard with four wheel drive and a version of the Freedom Drive System which tuned differently from the U.S. versions, but with similar capability to FDII with brake traction control and three switchable electronic stability control and traction control settings for on or off-road use. Freedom Drive I does not have ESP, thus no braking action. Freedom Drive II has ESP, thus braking action.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks guys for all your efforts

As you say very little information on the system

The concenus seems to be that it does not have the ability thro the ABS to brake a spinning wheel to force torque to the other wheel

Although I do beleive it has traction control which does to some extent attempt to do this, although with thro the electronics it also shuts down the power.

Which in snow etc you prob need power available

But thanks for trying to help much appreciated
 

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It just so happens that I went wheeling with a Patriot not long ago. It was a FDII, so it's not directly comparable, but here is what I saw. First, when "locked" it's a true 50/50 split, with open diffs front and rear (not exactly but it's an easy way to think abut it). When one wheel was in the air or on a loose traction surface the FDII pumped the brake on that one wheel to attempt to transfer the torque to the other wheel on that axel. This worked really well when say only one rear tire lost traction. However, when a front and rear tire were both without traction the system didn't even seem to try. I don't know if the computer thought the vehicle was moving or if it couldn't modulate two brakes at once or what, but he would just sit there and spin his tires. He was running whatever the factory "all terrains" are, but they are more street friendly then something like Goodyear Duratrac. A more aggressive tire would certainly help, but it's not as capable of a system as say QDII.

For the 50/50 lock it's a magnetically controlled clutch. Basically the computer can choose to engage it in increments up a full "lock" that delivers the 50/50 split. Now, since it's computer controlled it can do cool things like prevent the drivetrain from binding in high traction situations. for example if you "lock" it into a 50/50 split then perform a tight turn on pavement there is no bind. But how it does this is a bit annoying. Rather then "detecting bind" in some way and then releasing, the system determines that your wheels are turned to a certain degree and one wheel on the axle is moving faster then the other, so it disengages the lock to allow slipping between the front and rear axles. Great for drivetrain life, but it means you could have a situation off road where you won't have power moving to the rear axle. The other downside is that there is no mechanical lock between the front and rear, it's just a clutch. So it is possible that you could over power that clutch. I haven't seen a Patriot do this, but it is common on the Honda Ridgeline which uses a similar drive train setup.
 

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The difference between FD1 and FD2 is that FD2 offers a "low range" mode, in combination with CVT. Due to the nature of CVT, adding a low-range "gear" is easy, it's just software.
But it's a good thing and if I was in the market for a Patriot I would try to find one with FD2.
Look around youtube for Jeep Patriot offroad videos and you will see just how capable FD2 models are.
 
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