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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone already produce these already for our Commanders, to replace the rubber brake hoses?

I've been working with a tubing company on a couple projects for my Solo II racer. I'm currently doing a 60k brake overhaul on our Commander (rear rotors, pads, fluid refresh and speed bleeders) and have the opportunity to have several sets made up.

Any interest?
 

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i checked russell, goodridge and tecnafit a couple years ago and no luck. if you do find them lets us know. ive had them on all my cars and like the difference
 

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Is there a difference other then looks? Just wondering.
 

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Is there a difference other then looks? Just wondering.
One of those mods that can surprise you.
All rubber brake lines allow for a tiny bit of expansion even though they are internally reinforced.
So, a stock system has a bit of a rubbery feel with pedal application.
When SS reinforced lines are installed there is no expansion and once bled, the pedal response change is dramatic.....thats the surprise. You will be shocked at the pedal response.
For track use, they are almost a must for braking accuracy.
Many operators like this feeling on their drivers......I don't....a bit more offy/ony than I find necessary on a street vehicle, but that is only my opinion.
However, on my motorcycles, I like the much more linear lever response and this is a change I make immediatly after purchass.

Rob
 

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Great info once again, Robby. I have learned a lot from your posts.
 

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Robby,

I value your experiences as one of the best resources on this Forum. Jeep5253 is the "Search Meister" and is also a great source of information. Thanks to both of you for giving out information both quickly and in a practical format.

If I see any post by either of you I figure that I will learn something.
 

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Aw shucks Huey,
Thanks, that was nice of you.

Don't misunderstand, I know it is being read and mostly what I sometimes wonder is, am I formatting or explaining something in such a manner as to be understood by the layman, yet not talk down to those with a great deal of experience.

Often, before I hit send, I'll rewrite my response several times, all with the hope of giving something useful without inadvertently making someone feel their question has no merit.

Enouph hijacking....thanks all,
Rob
 

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Rob,
Thanks for the explanation. That makes total sense. I would really like to find a source for these. Anyone have any thoughts?


:)
 

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Great info once again, Robby. I have learned a lot from your posts.
x2 .. Thanks robby ,, when I first read the title I said why stainless !! then I knew why from robby's answer.

Question, do these lines run all the way to the wheels ? what about the flexibility needed for wheel travel?
 

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These lines are flexable and take the place of each rubber line on the hydraulic system.
On a Commander, I think I count 5.
One from the frame mount steel brake line to each front caliper.
One from the rear brake line at the chassis to the T connector on the differental.
One at each end of the steel brake line to each caliper mounted at the rear.
They are essentally a flexable teflon tube, about the same I.D. as the steel brake line.
The tubing is tightly wound and surrounded by braided stainless steel fine wire cable and then jacketed with clear plastic.
The ends are pressure crimped to the tubing the same as the original rubber jacketed hoses are, and the ends are the same as those on the original hoses.
They are flexible, but sometimes guide brackets must be made up to keep the hoses from chafing on surrounding components as they rise and fall with the wheels.

Rob
 

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...All rubber brake lines allow for a tiny bit of expansion even though they are internally reinforced...
Depends on the Manufacturer, some have a big steel coil molded within the rubber line, others I've been told are NO more than nylon braiding.

I've cut open more than one "OEM Chrysler" brake hose, and found a very big spiral coiled metal reinforcer molded within the rubber, doing the same job as the braided SS.

There is an argument, for street use, SS braided lines are uneccessary and you will NOT notice any improvement. BUT, it certainly can NOT hurt to upgrade the brake hoses.

IMO, it varies with vehicle and driver, if I see a ton of posts about people who have done this mod and it made so much of a more linear feeling brake pedal, etc, I might shell out the bucks to do it.

Some SS braided hose has clear teflon sleeves at the end of the line, its there to pass the DOT approval test. They do some torture test where they whip the hose back and forth on a machine for hours, and if the line shows any damage it fails. For SS braid, the braiding at the end of the hose frays and it fails, thus the reason for the sleeve that really does nothing else in real use on a vehicle. Totally covering the braiding in clear plastic would help against chaffing, cause if you chaff through the braiding, then the hose will swell, but that is unlikely as well.

Some other brake things, while we are on the topic:
DOT3 vs DOT4 fluid, DOT4 has higher boiling points, but DOT3 absorbs moisture much slower than DOT4. So, if your brake system does NOT get hot enough to require DOT4, its better to use DOT3 that will absorb less moisture out of the air (it can do it right through the rubber, so keeping the system sealed helps, but doesn't prevent it) and stay in better shape longer. My owner's manual recommends (2010 Commander 3.7L) DOT3 for brake fluid. Don't add DOT4 thinking it must be better, if DOT3 is recommended.

The brake fluid will get darker as it absorbs moisture and contaminants with age and use.

I use Castrol GT-LMA brake fluid, it exceeds DOT4 specs, but absorbs moisture slower than DOT3, used for years in my other Chrysler Vehicles and never had a problem, in fact had far less hydraulic brake problems than the average owner. The fluid takes a lot longer to darken as well.

Anyone bleed their own brakes on the Commander yet? To replace all the fluid in the system, minus the ABS module?
I have bled brakes on my ABS Mini-Van, the old conventional way, and never had a problem. Of course I could NOT bleed the ABS module without the Dealer DRBIII to activate the pump, but I bled the brakes to replace the fluid in the rest of the system.

My fear is, bleeding the brakes the conventional way to replace the fluid, will accidentally introduce air into the ABS Module, or create some sort circumstance, that will require the ABS Module to need to be bled as well, which would be an expensive trip to the dealer to have them bleed it.

Can anyone confirm they've bled the brakes it and did NOT encounter problems?

Flush and Changing Brake Fluid:
Like the trans fluid, its a bit foolish to accept the Manufacturer recommendation that the Brake Fluid is a Lifetime Fluid that does NOT need to be replaced. Replacing the Brake Fluid every few years will do wonders in keeping your Brake Performing well and the reliability and prevention of brake problems.

The moisture that will be absorbed can start rust in the steel compononents, it will lower the boiling point and is possible, if enough moisture is absorbed, getting the brakes hot will cause the fluid to boil and then the pedal goes to the floor with little to no braking force.

Yes, with ABS, unless you have to have an expensive special electronic tool to operate the pump, you can NOT bleed the module, but replacing the rest of the fluid in the system, would eventually get fresher fluid ciculated into the ABS Module. I always take advantage of snow, to excercise my ABS system. My last mini-van with ABS, all the original brake system (minus friction parts) is still going strong with no problems after 8 years and 180k miles.
 

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I realize I'm resurrecting a very old thread, but I had the same question about the availability of stainless braided brake hoses recently. After some research I found that the 2009 Jeep Grand Cherokee and the 2009 Jeep Commander have the same part numbers for the line-to-caliper hoses (the GC also lists part numbers for "perf" application which I presume refers to the SRT8).

Stop-tech lists part no 950.58000 as being front stainless brake lines for the 2009 GC (exc. SRT8). Unfortunately, stop-tech doesn't make rear stainless lines for the non-SRT8 GC. However, the 2009 GC SRT8 rear brake hose part number appears to be the same as the 2009 Commander rear brake hose part number. Stop-tech lists part no 950.58501 as being rear stainless brake lines for the 2009 GC SRT8.

Given that the jeep part numbers appear to be the same between the GC, GC SRT8 and Commander, is there any reason to believe these stop-tech kits wouldn't work on a Commander?
 

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I would think the XK and WK are interchangeable. Not so sure about XK and the SRT8 though.
 

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52089259AD and 52089997AE are listed as the rear right/left hoses for both 2009 Commander and 2009 GC SRT8 which makes me think the stop-tech hoses listed for just the SRT8 would also fit the commander.
 

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BTW, I have bled my Commanders brakes to the point to flush all the old fluid to replace it with new fluid. I did NOT encounter one single ABS problem, which is true of most cars todays. Some of the first ABS systems, if you bled your brakes yourself it would get air into the ABS pump or valves, which can only be bled using a special electronic tool to activate the pump.

Of course when I bled the brakes, I did NOT replace the old fluid in the ABS pump itself, but that is a very small amount, and as my ABS pump activated for bad weather braking and traction control, the fluid in the pump circulated to get fresh fluid in the pump.

Again, IMO SS brake lines for most street driven vehicles are a waste. Perhaps a high quality set would offer you a more linear pedal feel than the OEM hoses, but the OEM hoses have metal coils in them to prevent swelling under pressure, the difference may NOT even be noticeable, especially for street driving. If you want it just for the look, they do make SS braided covers that you can put on your OEM lines.
 

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I've converted several street only vehicles over the braided stainless and there is a night and day difference in pedal feel and brake action. Rubber lines, even with a coil of metal are still mostly rubber and therefore will expand with pressure - this gets increasingly true with high mileage and extended usage.

Not related to Jeeping, but I've done a ton of brake experimenting on my autocross / track day car and I swear by braided stainless lines.

It is always a worth while upgrade, but one that is easy to skim over if you have never experienced the difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Thanks 241comp for looking into it, I will verify, but it sounds like they may be available now. Funny how no one answered the original question in my post.

I am an engineer and work in the auto industry. I own a side company that produces and sells automotive accessories, a portion of which works with AN /race plumbing. We have the ability to produce these ourselves now, and still may do it. We were trying to gauge the level of interest w/the original thread, but maybe this isn't the right place.

Let me clarify flexible SS braided brake hoses for folks, there is some misinformation in this thread.

There are two primary types of AN hose with a SS braided cover- the type with a rubber inner hose and the type with a Teflon extruded hose.

The rubber type is commonly used with fuel, oil and coolant systems. It may or may not have one or more layers of spirally wound inner nylon braid, which improves burst strength.

The Teflon type withstands MUCH higher pressures, and is used primarily for brake, power steering, and nitrous systems. It can also be used for fuel, oil and coolant, but most of the time is not necessary unless the hose is exposed to high pressure or extreme temperature. But even in racing environments, conventional rubber hose with a SS braided cover is sufficient for oil, fuel and coolant systems most of the time. Most of them now have a synthetic rubber formulation, and have excellent chemical resistance. With that said, there are some special fuels for which Teflon is a better choice. That's another topic.

The flexible SS hoses referred to in this thread for braking system are the Teflon type and absolutely outperform OEM rubber hoses with a spiral core. That spiral core does nothing more than provide internal structure integrity for the hose so it doesn't kink.

Rubber hose expands, Teflon does not. I won't repeat the performance benefits, as Robby and some others have already done that.

For both types, the outer SS braided cover functions to provide abrasion resistance. That's it, it does not contribute to the structural integrity of the hose.
 

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Thanks 241comp for looking into it, I will verify, but it sounds like they may be available now. Funny how no one answered the original question in my post.

I am an engineer and work in the auto industry. I own a side company that produces and sells automotive accessories, a portion of which works with AN /race plumbing. We have the ability to produce these ourselves now, and still may do it. We were trying to gauge the level of interest w/the original thread, but maybe this isn't the right place.

Let me clarify flexible SS braided brake hoses for folks, there is some misinformation in this thread.

There are two primary types of AN hose with a SS braided cover- the type with a rubber inner hose and the type with a Teflon extruded hose.

The rubber type is commonly used with fuel, oil and coolant systems. It may or may not have one or more layers of spirally wound inner nylon braid, which improves burst strength.

The Teflon type withstands MUCH higher pressures, and is used primarily for brake, power steering, and nitrous systems. It can also be used for fuel, oil and coolant, but most of the time is not necessary unless the hose is exposed to high pressure or extreme temperature. But even in racing environments, conventional rubber hose with a SS braided cover is sufficient for oil, fuel and coolant systems most of the time. Most of them now have a synthetic rubber formulation, and have excellent chemical resistance. With that said, there are some special fuels for which Teflon is a better choice. That's another topic.

The flexible SS hoses referred to in this thread for braking system are the Teflon type and absolutely outperform OEM rubber hoses with a spiral core. That spiral core does nothing more than provide internal structure integrity for the hose so it doesn't kink.

Rubber hose expands, Teflon does not. I won't repeat the performance benefits, as Robby and some others have already done that.

For both types, the outer SS braided cover functions to provide abrasion resistance. That's it, it does not contribute to the structural integrity of the hose.

Anyone who has lifted their rig could use a longer brake lines, so there is at least a residual market. I am most certainly looking for extended lines for the XK. I am looking in the flavor of 6-8" extended lines for the front and rear.

Dave
 
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