Jeep Commander Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 73 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Do ya'll really want performance engine stuff?

Cold air inductions?
Headers?
Ported heads?
Cams?
Stroker motors?
Blue Printed Water Pumps?
Adjustable timing sprokets?
Programmers?
Exhaust?

I need to know because if I'm barking up the wrong tree let me know now.............we can make 385 - 400 rear wheel horse power / 390 - 415 trq with the 5.7 and the work can be done in the driveway.

A healthy and programmed 392ci (5.7 stroker) can make 425 - 450 at the wheels with about 440 - 460 trq.........

These thing run better than most of you know or have been exposed to..........the low end torque of this motor is sick................just to give you an idea; we stroked a 6.1 to 426ci and put it on the dyno. We had to make our pull for power in 3rd gear because 4th gear trips the speed limiter before the redline.............anyways, we have to start our pull about 3200 rpm because any lower and the car down shifts..............so we hold the car in 3rd gear at 3000 - 3200 rpm and romp on it: RESULT : the car's torque jumped to 450 ft/lb and never fell below it all the way to redline at 6400. Peak torque was something like 524 I believe and the car made 519 rwhp.

This is a mild cam and this motor is in a Magnum SRT8 here in Houston............it is a daily driver and is smooth enough for our customer to drive his kids and wife in and wild enough to run mid-11's at the 1/4 mile track.

This car weighs in at 4700+ pounds..........

So...............is the Jeep market fruitful enough for us to spend the time, energy, money, and effort to grow it and work with?

Lee [/url]
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,579 Posts
Personally for me, No. I like the power and performance but it is just a toy, something to go out and play with the other boys in. Not interested in racing it and all that extra power isn't really needed off road if you have the HEMI. IMHO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
not arguing just discussing...........

Doesn't the low end grunt-power of a diesel make it more attractive for off-roading?

How about when a HEMI makes the same off-throttle torque...........isn't that appealing to some level?

I'm not talking about racing............but adding performance items to make more low-end torque; doesn't that make up the the inability of having a "super-low" gear? (to some extent?)

Our dyno has only shown the 5.7 to make about 270 - 285 rwhp and about 300 -310 torque (peak) to the wheels................without pulling the motor out of the Jeep and just taking off parts and bolting on new ones I am telling you we are at 385 - 400 rwhp / 390 - 420 torque

Can you use that power offroad?

Now what if I told you that with a few, specifc parts and a tuner you can actually INCREASE your gas milage while actually gaining power? The MDS guys have the most to gain here versus someone like me with a 2006 with no MDS but a gain is a gain.

Most guys going the fuel-milage route with minimal parts tend to still be in the 330 rwhp/350 trq range (in the cars anyways)

certain wind drag factors we can't do anything about obviously..........

At this point I'm just kicking around some thoughts and seeing what the reaction is.........................and if the response is, "Yes I am really interested but skeptical" then we can go from there to share what we know and build mine and possibly help sponsor 1 or 2 Jeeps from here as a "test bed" to prove the point.

If the reaction is like yours, "Nah...........270 rwhp is all I need" then we'll merely move along and spend our time, energy and money else where such as the cars and the Ram truck.

However if someone is past due waiting and ready to jump in with both feet..................then we need to get busy and make sure we document the build on here so people will actually start to be able to make proper choices on their own rides.

We've known for quite awhile that not all cold air inductions do as they promote..............in fact a couple actually HURT performance.

Not all exhausts did as they promised.

The chips were marginal at best.....

We've been thu the whole pully testing and developement.......

We've been making heads and have countless hours on the flow-bench and on dynos and can make the stock HEMI head out flow my port Edelbrock Performer RPM heads on my 440 big block Dart.

Our heads and intake is on the fastest LX in the world 2006 SRT8 Magnum w/ Vortec R trim blower at full wieght running 10.6's

Our full product line on the fastest full wieght 300C 5.7 running a 11.8

We were the first to make a dyno proven 500 rwhp on motor only.........its daily driven here in Houston

We have alot to share...........................but just like at lunch time, you gotta see who hungry before you go sharing your food.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
What about the 4.7, do you have anything for it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Do we? No

Can we? Possibly

Explain: The 4.7 is a motor IMO that will go away and has limited potential compared to the HEMI...............the HEMI is one of the best stock motors I've ever seen and if the after market would get a clue, Dodge would be leading the way in performance.

Therefor there is minimal upside in spending all the time and money into 4.7 production-parts when the motor itslef is pinching out. To further that line of thought, those wanting performance parts most likely started with the motor with the biggest upside to begin with (some would think).

Our company is based around the HEMI (5.7 and 6.1) and not around a platform (LX, LY, Jeep, truck, or swaps) however we are carrying the supportive products that go along with these platforms........i.e. we carry exhaust, CAI, and lights for the came car we sell our heads/cams to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
if its an 06 it doesn't have MDS..........a feature released in the 2007 model

The best way to make a truck run better gas milage is to figure out whats killing the milage to begin with. In my case, there is nothing that can be done; its a math issue...........

I sit in dead-lock traffic in Houston..........nothing I can do about milage while sitting still buring gas, ya know?

Anyways.......the trick here is to make what you have more effcient.

I can tell in my own truck that as I cruize down the freeway at 60mph I can get 18mpg but bouncing around town light-to-light I get 13mpg............big hit. I conclude that the fuel sucker is obviously the energy it takes to get my truck moving not the effort it takes to keep it in motion. (i.e. wind drag, tire inflation, etc.)

So if I can use 40% motor effort to get my truck moving as appose to 60% motor effort to get moving yet at the near or same fuel usage then I will actually use less to do more...........:icon_confused:............or in other words save gas.

The best trick by far is proper "air in / air out"...............CAI and exhaust

With the cars, the best product out there is by AFE called the AFE II..............but I'm not sure if that design made it to the Jeeps (yet) or if we can use the one from the LX platform.

I also need to start playing around with some exuasts to see what makes sense............but I can tell you that my wife's 5.7 Aspen flows exhaust MUCH more efficient than my Jeep 5.7

I think the best bang for the buck on the exhaust side will be the 6.1 headers that come STOCK with the GC SRT8

Next the heads.................the port is okay and clean up alone picked up ALOT of flow. THe valve job and throat are poor............and milling the head .030 bump compression to just under 10.5:1

Cam design has been something we've played with alot of the last couple of years...............biggest thing for off-roaders is to remember the phrase "less is more" in creating torque. TOrque motors need alot of cyl pressure and we achieve that with a proper cam.

You put these elements together in the right combo you make more power right off of idle and use the same fuel if not less yet achieve more power. This more power helps just getting to 45 mph and cruizing...................thus the savings.

For MDS HEMI owners 2007-2008, the power advantage means MDS comes on more often and sooner than ever before..................these guys are spending more time in 4cyl mode and burning ALOT less fuel. Some of our car customers are getting 24 - 26 mpg yet making around 380 rwhp and running high 12's on street tires in a 4500 pound car
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
887 Posts
I think you may be underestimating the market for the 4.7L. Here is some info that I recently found that sheds some light on this engine.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/47.html

Where will the aftermarket - and Mopar Performance - take the 287? There's already a supercharger setup from Performance West, and available through any Jeep dealer. But less radical upgrades would seem to be quite easy. Revised, premium fuel calibration - more spark advance, and a tad more fuel in the form of a computer chip flash would seem to be almost a must. There's room for larger valves, the Mopar machine shops are probably already plotting how they'll re-contour and flow the heads; headers are almost guaranteed, along with a less restrictive air intake setup, and Crane or Comp Cams will surely have cams for it. In other words, we see no reason why this engine can't respond to all the usual hot rodding techniques, and then some. In fact, with such a bountiful set of basic ingredients, hot rodding this engine seems a natural.
Buddy Revell pointed out that the new engine is "almost" a Hemi - "the only reason it isn't called a hemi is because the combustion chambers have a wall on one side that makes it look kind of like a flat tire. Other than that everything is in the same arangment. The valve springs are across from each other and the spark plug goes right down the middle."
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,913 Posts
MomsR/T said:
if its an 06 it doesn't have MDS..........a feature released in the 2007 model
You seem to think you know so much about the Commander but you are wrong on this. The '06 HEMIs DO have the MDS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
actually since 2003

and

my resources tell me that the PCM which allowed the HEMI to communicate with the truck tranny was not out until the 2007 model; can you share with me what leads you to believe different please?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,913 Posts
actually since 2003

and

my resources tell me that the PCM which allowed the HEMI to communicate with the truck tranny was not out until the 2007 model; can you share with me what leads you to believe different please?
Your resources are WRONG.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
You seem to think you know so much about the Commander but you are wrong on this. The '06 HEMIs DO have the MDS.


whaaaooooo...................wait a minute here.

I don't pretend to know crap about the Jeeps in any fashion and in fact have alot to learn, however I know a TON about this motor and Mopars in general. I have alot to share and alot ot learn and have a company with a great reputation and came to help if there is any interest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
717 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,913 Posts
actually since 2003

and

my resources tell me that the PCM which allowed the HEMI to communicate with the truck tranny was not out until the 2007 model; can you share with me what leads you to believe different please?
You can start with this and if that isn't good enough for you I can try to scan my build sheet and post it. Don't forget you are talking to some people here that know the Commander inside and out.
http://www.xkjeeps.com/xk_overview.htm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I think you may be underestimating the market for the 4.7L. Here is some info that I recently found that sheds some light on this engine.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/47.html
but what the 4.7 doesn't have is the strong built bottom end (design wise), it doesn't have the 13* head, it doesn't have the long runner intake, and is down 1 full litre.

The big valves that were mentioned are to makeup for a poor line-of-sight that the HEMI head doesn't lack. The 5.7 head STOCK flows 285 cfm at .600 - .625 lift which is better than many big block heads yet it ONLY uses a small 2.00 intake valve and 1.52 exhaust valve.

But I'm not here to dismiss or belittle another motor rather explain what we offer and what I'm interested in supporting if the market is there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Jeep5253................I don't know what we're getting off on the wrong foot but I think somehow I've offended you in some way. What ever I've done to upset you I sure am sorry.

I will look into the whole MDS thing but even if the 2006 does have MDS its only great news for us, no?

Would you care to know more about the engine because THATS what I bring to the table?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,913 Posts
Jeep5253................I don't know what we're getting off on the wrong foot but I think somehow I've offended you in some way. What ever I've done to upset you I sure am sorry.

I will look into the whole MDS thing but even if the 2006 does have MDS its only great news for us, no?

Would you care to know more about the engine because THATS what I bring to the table?
And you still don't believe the people that own it - that is the problem. So basically you are calling us liars.
 
1 - 20 of 73 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top