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Discussion Starter #1
First part: Turning the Traction Control Off,,,

I don’t know if anyone tried to do this before ! ,, but I have done it today :)

As you know I go on soft sand driving very often, and the Traction Control keeps on engaging many times, even when its not needed and do no good like in hill claiming, which simply absorbs the engine power and prevents wheel slippage needed on all wheels to go through. Also that keeps me worried about the ABS system and break system from the excessive load from the Traction Control.

So I thought about turning off the Traction Control by removing the fuses. And I found two fuses, ABS pump and ABS valves. I tried the ABS pump first and removed it while the engine is off, and after starting the engine, ABS, ESP/BAS and ESP sign were all ON indicating that the ABS system (the basis of Traction Control) is Off. Then I put the fuse back in position and started the engine again, but all lights were still ON, then I put it in D and moved on and once the ABS system made the first check, all lights went off indicating that the ABS system & ESP system were back to operation.

Then I tried the ABS valves fuse (after putting the ABS pump fuse back), but got fault message (Service 4WD system) and the 4low didn’t work. Then I put the fuse back in and the fault message were cleared automatically on first ABS check.

So I concluded that the ABS pump fuse is the one should be removed to get the Traction Control OFF.
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Second part: Traction Control Test on soft sand

Second part: Traction Control Test on soft sand ,,

So I was so excited to put this under the test to see how the Commander would perform without the Traction Control and how much the Traction Control is effective. And I went on a quick sand dunes trip with my friend who has a well prepared Toyota Fortuner.

First I turned the Traction Control Off and went on a quick test and put the two wheels on one side into very soft sand on a small dune wall ,,,,, see how the commander was digged in !! ,, I have never managed to get it digged in that way.









While in there I put the fuse back, and retired to move, and surprisingly it moved on !! and got itself out of the dune wall, but unfortunately due to low ground clearance I got stuck just couple of meters away from the dune wall (bottomed down) and had to be pulled out.

That was the first test,, 

Second Test describes it self,,,,, enjoy the movie :rolleyes:




I was really impressed by that.

My friend has diff lockers in both differentials (one from factory and one ARB air-locker), and in this testing trip we drove about 30 miles in Sand dunes and we concluded that both trucks did almost the same from 4WD system point of view, but the Commander has a very low ground clearance which got it stuck once (other than the test one) and pulled out.





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Addition, this was added in reply # 26 in page 3

Another test,

I managed to go back from that spot with Traction Control ON.

 

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Discussion Starter #3
He also test drove my Commander ,,,,, and he managed to get it bottomed down on an easy descent ! ……….Never give your Commander to Toyota guys !!




Picture of the two trucks

 

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So is it your opinion that it was better overall to remove the fuse or to leave it alone?
 

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ahmed255 said:
He also test drove my Commander ,,,,, and he managed to get it bottomed down on an easy descent ! ……….Never give your Commander to Toyota guys !!




Picture of the two trucks

Fantastic....I'm off down to the beach next weekend when I get mine back from the transmission boys!!!

Its good to see clear factual instructions and methods...well done from here in the UK :cool:
 

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So, are you saying that 4Hi with ESP all the way off is more effective is soft sand than 4LOW? I wonder what the difference would be with QDII. It didn't look like that front tire was trying at all when you didn't make it up the hill - completely unlocked.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
a49erFootballFan said:
So is it your opinion that it was better overall to remove the fuse or to leave it alone?
the Commander did very well as long as non of the wheels is off the ground, even when some of the wheels go on soft spots, as the truck keeps on moving without the need to engage the traction control to limit the slippage in that little extra spinning due to soft spot.

but all in all, I would keep the Traction Control On to reduce the risk of getting stuck
. especially with this low ground clearance.

But what I would like to do after the warranty ends, is to add a switch to control that fuse manually from inside so that I can turn on the TSC when needed as in the video.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
PolarBZ said:
So, are you saying that 4Hi with ESP all the way off is more effective is soft sand than 4LOW?
Yes, in that particular situation (one wheel off the ground).

PolarBZ said:
I wonder what the difference would be with QDII. It didn't look like that front tire was trying at all when you didn't make it up the hill - completely unlocked.
I think QDII would do much better without Traction Control as it limits the slippage by itself.

PolarBZ said:
It didn't look like that front tire was trying at all when you didn't make it up the hill - completely unlocked.
Yea, because the lifted wheel took all the power.

if you notice in 4Hi without Traction Control, the transfer case is trying to shift the power to the front diff. but with no success as it goes back to the rear diff immediately.

in 4low without Traction Control, the transfer case locked the front and rear diffs but I think the right front tire was taking all power going to the front axle.
 

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Ahmed, thanks for the clarification. I noticed that when I've been on three or two wheels, the ones up in the air get limited, not the ground based ones. Just curious as to what happened there. Thanks.
 

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Ok after reading the thread twice i think i got myself really confused. Are you saying when you pull that fuse that it totally disables the traction control so that you are able to spin the tires without it kicking in and stopping wheel spin.

If this is correct then this would totally fix the problem i had while mudding last night. If you read my thread you can get more info on the problem i was having. Basically i was in some mud and due to all the tires being in the mud and spinning the traction control would just kick in and stop the wheels from spinning so i couldnt move forward or backwards.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
07JeepXK said:
Ok after reading the thread twice i think i got myself really confused. Are you saying when you pull that fuse that it totally disables the traction control so that you are able to spin the tires without it kicking in and stopping wheel spin.
Yes, you are basically disbling the ABS system which the Traction Control uses to prevent wheel slippage.

07JeepXK said:
If this is correct then this would totally fix the problem i had while mudding last night. If you read my thread you can get more info on the problem i was having. Basically i was in some mud and due to all the tires being in the mud and spinning the traction control would just kick in and stop the wheels from spinning so i couldnt move forward or backwards.
I read it, but unfortunately I have no experience in mud at all. but if you think disabling the Traction Control would help then this is a way to do it. but I guess you need to put it in 4low to lock the two axles together.
 

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In the first 2 tests, the commander acted like a rear-wheel drive vehicle not a 4 wheel drive vehicle.

In my opinion, I would always want the power to move AWAY from the slipping tire. The last test run seemed to be the only time the front took over and pulled.

Just my view of the video...
 

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Commander91899 said:
In the first 2 tests, the commander acted like a rear-wheel drive vehicle not a 4 wheel drive vehicle.

In my opinion, I would always want the power to move AWAY from the slipping tire. The last test run seemed to be the only time the front took over and pulled.

Just my view of the video...
In mud you definitely need the tires to spin. What happens is you need the tires to dig through the mud until it hits something solid. That's only for deep mud though.
 

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Yes, I think sand and mud need two different settings - in sand you need as little wheelspin as possible, but in mud you do need the forward momentum and wheelspin to hit a solid bottom or object to keep you moving forward.

My Jeep has QD II, so I am not sure what impact that has had, but I have yet to even turn off my ESP or traction control, even when going through this puddle. You can hear the Hemi working the Jeep through the mud, doing its job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkmbX_uUng

 

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Discussion Starter #15
Commander91899 said:
In the first 2 tests, the commander acted like a rear-wheel drive vehicle not a 4 wheel drive vehicle.

In my opinion, I would always want the power to move AWAY from the slipping tire. The last test run seemed to be the only time the front took over and pulled.

Just my view of the video...
I don't think it acted like 2WD, but without traction control the front right wheel was the one moving (can not be seen in the video) as it was partially lifted from the ground and has low traction.

the front left wheel took acting only when the traction control applied the break on the front-right and rear-left wheels to limit their slippage. This can been seen if you close very carefully at the rear left wheel once it got lifted in the last attempt, it started to slip and suddenly for second slowed down as a result of the break, which was enough to send power to the other wheel to move the vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
prudemonkey said:
Yes, I think sand and mud need two different settings - in sand you need as little wheelspin as possible, but in mud you do need the forward momentum and wheelspin to hit a solid bottom or object to keep you moving forward.

My Jeep has QD II, so I am not sure what impact that has had, but I have yet to even turn off my ESP or traction control, even when going through this puddle. You can hear the Hemi working the Jeep through the mud, doing its job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkmbX_uUng
in addition to the sand and mud.. Traction Control works the best in rocky roads and uneven terrains where you got the wheels off the ground very often.

in regards to the QD-II, I believe that QD-II without traction control would do much better compared with QT-II without traction control. because it limits the slippage in the ELSDs without the need to apply the breaks.
(I'm not saying QD-II is better without Traction control, its only when compared to QT-II)
 

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Hi guys,

I'm Ahmed's friend, who was with him in the trip.

It is very interesting to know those hints about driving in mud, I like them.

Commander91899 said:
In the first 2 tests, the commander acted like a rear-wheel drive vehicle not a 4 wheel drive vehicle.

In my opinion, I would always want the power to move AWAY from the slipping tire. The last test run seemed to be the only time the front took over and pulled.

Just my view of the video...
It did not act as a rear wheel drive, the reason you thought so is that the wheel spinning is actually the one on the other side, because there is no traction control, that spin did not get interrupted to allow the other wheel to drive. This is how open diffs works, without any internal or external help. Traction control is an external help.
 

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ahmed said:
in addition to the sand and mud.. Traction Control works the best in rocky roads and uneven terrains where you got the wheels off the ground very often.

in regards to the QD-II, I believe that QD-II without traction control would do much better compared with QT-II without traction control. because it limits the slippage in the ELSDs without the need to apply the breaks.
(I'm not saying QD-II is better without Traction control, its only when compared to QT-II)

I wonder if you need traction control at all, with QD-II! Any one knows?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The Alternator said:
I wonder if you need traction control at all, with QD-II! Any one knows?
Interesting question though, and never thought about it.

for the QD-II owners, Does the Traction Control get engaged very often when off-roading?, can you think about some cases?
 

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Love these videos...keep them coming! It's nice to see some real-world driving in slippery sand to show the true capabilities of the system. Now you just need a QDII Commander to make a comparison between the two different systems...
 
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