Jeep Commander Forum banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
602 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Valvoline Substantiates Its Superiority Claim of SynPower 5W-30 Compared to Mobil 1 5W-30

Valvoline has issued a letter to its customers and marketers recently refuting ExxonMobil's challenge and stating that its claim of superiority is fully substantiated. The below is based on the letter issued by Valvoline dated November 21, 2008. Thomas R. Smith, Technical Director, Valvoline Lubricants told LubriTec "The data speaks for itself."
Over the last several months, Valvoline has been running advertising claiming Valvoline SynPower 5W-30 has four times better wear protection than Mobil 1 5W-30. Because ExxonMobil has challenged Valvoline's claim, both directly with Valvoline and with a number of Valvoline's customers, the company felt compelled to reassure interested parties that its claim is fully substantiated. Valvoline has sent a letter and attached Q&A to its customers and marketers providing additional information and data that support Valvoline SynPower’s significant performance advantage versus Mobil 1.
Vehicle manufacturers and oil industry experts, working together, set minimum performance standards for motor oil − the current specifications are ILSAC GF-4 and API SM and these specifications have been required since 2005. Vehicle manufacturers recommend that consumers only use oil which meets those minimum standards. In fact, Valvoline states that its Premium Conventional motor oil, DuraBlend synthetic blend, MaxLife and SynPower brands all meet or exceed the SM and GF-4 specifications, and, notably, SynPower substantially exceeds the industry benchmark wear test – the Sequence IVA wear test.
The Sequence IVA wear test measures cam lobe wear in the valve train at low temperatures and rpms, simulating idling after start-up and stop-and-go traffic. The Sequence IVA is an important industry recognized test to evaluate an oil’s performance with regards to wear protection in modern engines. Over the past couple years, Valvoline conducted a number of tests and commissioned an independent laboratory to evaluate the performance of SynPower and the segment leader, Mobil 1, in the Sequence IVA wear test. The labs used 5W-30 for the testing, given that it is the top selling grade weight. The results from testing 5W-30 are often used by industry experts to substantiate performance of several viscosity grades of oil. The results from this testing indicate that:
1. Valvoline SynPower’s 5W-30 wear performance is at least four times better than Mobil 1 5W-30.
2. Mobil 1 5W-30 does not meet minimum API SM or ILSAC GF-4 specifications because of its inferior performance in the Sequence IVA wear test.
Valvoline notified ExxonMobil of these test results in September. At that time, Valvoline requested that ExxonMobil take appropriate action regarding their claim that Mobil 1 meets ILSAC GF-4 and API SM specifications – or provide substantiation that they, in fact, meet these specifications. Failure to meet the ILSAC and API specs also would mean that Mobil 1 5W-30 cannot meet basic GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, or Honda requirements.
Smith told Lubritec "As of last Friday, December 12, nearly three months after the disclosure of Valvoline's test data to them, ExxonMobil has not yet responded. For additional information, refer to the Q&A from Valvoline.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
That's interesting! I choose Castrol Syntec (full synthetic) 5W20 for my Hemi ... I cheked on line and it had good reviews and it was on sale at Wal-Mart :)

After reading this I think it's another reason to stay with a full synthetic engine oil.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,309 Posts
Regardless, I have always used Mobil 1. I know people that swear by Mobil 1 and have been using it for over 30 years and put more then 250,000 miles on their vehicles without any issues. Ill stick with Mobil 1.:bowdown:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,912 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
602 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I just did a Mobil 1 Oil change and am damned confused now, lol. To make matters worse, the guy at Auto Zone tells me that NOTHING can hang with this new Castrol synthetic that just came out---I guess that's the one you guys are using. Also, I found a few articles on this guy last night that I will have to dig up that goes on these cross country crazy expeditions from like Death Valley to the Artic Circle in a Offraod Toyota something or another and he uses MOBIL 1. Started right up at 40 below after being turned off for 6 hours while he slept in a tent on top his truck in the Artic Circle, lol. Also, he was jumping **** and cutting up in, I believe, Deathe Valley @ 130 degrees F. on the same trip---same fill of Mobil 1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Also, I found a few articles on this guy last night that I will have to dig up that goes on these cross country crazy expeditions from like Death Valley to the Artic Circle in a Offraod Toyota something or another and he uses MOBIL
I don't put any weight on these kinds of stunts ... as long as the engine is running when he gets back he doing fine ... but something like valve lobe wear in the OP example *IS* a factor that will effect us.

That was my point in using senthitec ... regular oil is not meeting minimum standerds is a bit scary.. at least if we use synthetic it's made to ahigher standard.

I like scientific reports liekthis that provide real mesurable results ... just a buddys report "it works fine for me" is not a factor for oil choice in my opinion ...

... for example I have a Geo Tracker out the side of theose with well over 400,000 K on it .. It's been 150,000 K since the last oil change, I have no idea what kind of oil it uses, but I gurantee you it's no glowing report on that brand of oil ... i have no idea why it's still running :) .. one factor might be it uses up oil so fast it always has a fresh quart in it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,262 Posts
I think we get caught up in splitting hairs when we read articles about testing premium oils against one another.
Sort of a, this is great but that is greater mentality.
Regarding using cam lobe wear as an indicator.....it is a good factor as it is the highest potental pressure point for film failure, but......
This test is specific for flat tappet cams.
Roller lifters have replaced flat tappets for many years now, so this test is more valid to the gang keeping the older classics on their feet.
Flat tappet cam wear became noticeable after the oil formulations changed and the phosforus percentage was significantly reduced.
This allowed the lifter foot to mow through the oil film at the cam lobe in certain temp, rpm conditions.
Kinda like years ago when many engines used to wear the lobe off the cam.

Rob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
I doubt that anyone will experience excessive wear on their engines if they change their oil/filter every 3-5k miles.

This thread boils down to a brand debate. "I'n my experience green is a better color than red." The race team I was on was sponsored by Castrol Syntec. I learned a ton about oils during that time, and still buy whatever brand synthetic oil that is on sale.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
602 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Yeah, and them last night I was reading that Casrtol Edge blew everything else out of the water---go figure. By process of elimination--one HAS to be better than the other. I wish I could just figure out which one, lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
I doubt that anyone will experience excessive wear on their engines if they change their oil/filter every 3-5k miles.
I agree anticdotal reports are of no use, just because a buddy has had no problems is not selling pint for an oil ...

...but I feel the science is very telling, thoses oil ratings are devloped for a reason and even though the Hemi has roller lifters, I still feel guided by the report.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
I agree anticdotal reports are of no use, just because a buddy has had no problems is not selling pint for an oil ...

...but I feel the science is very telling, thoses oil ratings are devloped for a reason and even though the Hemi has roller lifters, I still feel guided by the report.
Guided? more like mislead...

The report, Dated last year, was generated by a Mobil 1 competitor that paid a Lab to to testing. That alone, leads me to beleive this Letter to Mobil1 could be a publicity stunt to gain a competitive edge for the time given to disprove allegations made against Mobil1 not meeting minimum requirements.​

In fact, Mobil 1 is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:
[*]Acura RDX
[*]Aston Martin
[*]All Bentley Vehicles
[*]All Cadillac Vehicles
[*]Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06
[*]Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS
[*]Chrysler 300C SRT-8
[*]Cobalt SS S/C Coupe
[*]Dodge Caliber SRT-4, Charger SRT-8, and Magnum SRT-8
[*]Jeep Cherokee SRT-8
[*]Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles
[*]Mercedes SLR
[*]Mitsubishi Evolution
[*]Pontiac Solstice GXP
[*]All Porsche Vehicles
[*]Saturn Ion Red Line and Saturn Sky Red Line
[*]Viper SRT-10

FEB 2009: "ExxonMobil today announced that the company’s flagship brand of synthetic motor oil, Mobil 1, has been selected as the factory fill and service fill endorsed motor oil for the new Chevy Cobalt SS Coupe and Chevy HHR-SS."

The 1st warranty claim against one of the above vehicles, that was found to be Lobe wear would have sparked a change in Factory/OEM oils instantly.

Close this brand war thread.:rofl:
I do not use mobil1, unless it is on sale, which never happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Guided? more like mislead....
If soemone gets LEAD the wrong way they are mislead ... but using all the information we can as a guide is the opposite of that.

What advantage woud there be in closing the thread? ... So we can stop learning ? ... I think it's interesting to gather as much info as possible ... like the post you just made .. I would not have known about the announcment if you didn't post it ...

... BUT If I am not mistaken don't ALL new vehicles use roller tappets .. if so lack of a wearentee claim based on cam lobe wear would logicaly be due to that fact alone not the oil quality.

I still think synthetic is the way to go ... it's not that much more expensive ... the other method about keeping oil change frequent is also very good advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
If soemone gets LEAD the wrong way they are mislead ... but using all the information we can as a guide is the opposite of that.

What advantage woud there be in closing the thread? ... So we can stop learning ? ... I think it's interesting to gather as much info as possible ... like the post you just made .. I would not have known about the announcment if you didn't post it ...

... BUT If I am not mistaken don't ALL new vehicles use roller tappets .. if so lack of a wearentee claim based on cam lobe wear would logicaly be due to that fact alone not the oil quality.

I still think synthetic is the way to go ... it's not that much more expensive ... the other method about keeping oil change frequent is also very good advice.
Closing this thread is not a good idea, I just get frustrated with brand debates sometimes...

I also feel that when articles are written to persuade, such as "Independent laboratory Analysis" was done on XXX product, it does not reveal the appropriate information to do your own comparison. Anyone could be an "Independent Lab" if they setup a controlled environment...

Synthetic is not more expensive when you factor in the brake-down of the oil takes longer, which means longer time between changes. In Fact, Synthetic is cheaper over the life of the vehicle!

AMSoil has 12k mile oil, that requires a filter changes. That is being green, and providing a cost savings. Many cars have sealed engines that require changes at 10k+ by dealer only.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Closing this thread is not a good idea, I just get frustrated with brand debates sometimes...
Yes people get emotional attached to brand names ... in soem way that's a testament to the advertisers :)

It seems like the report is credible .. but perhpas you are correct we should take it with a little grain of salt as it came from thier competitors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
"I do not use mobil1, unless it is on sale, which never happens. "

Actually - Last week Mobil 1 5W-20 was On-Sale .......... At Walmart. Their 5qt. jug went for 22 Bucks. I bought a couple of jugs - Regular price is 26 Bucks.

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Thanks for letting everyone know Sparky, dang it, I buy my Mobile 1 at Walmart too, and wish I'd of know it was on sale. :) As far as this debate goes, I'd say if you're using a synthetic oil, you're already a step ahead of the rest. I don't think you can really go too wrong with any of them, they're all well above the standards from regular oil. The time and debate should go into the filters. Dirt is what eventually breaks down any oil. I don't care how long they say you can run any oil, if it gets dirty, you need to change it. Run synthetic (any brand), change your oil regularly before it gets too dirty, and you wont have any issues. Just my two cents.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
753 Posts
I am using Mobil 1. If it is good enough for Vipers and Mercedes than it is good enough for mine.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,248 Posts
Since most of you guys except Danny are east of the Mississippi, I thought I would tease you a bit. Two of the attendance prizes at the Colorado Camp are oil changes to AMSoil XL long life synthetic with AMSoil filters and Fumoto Valves. That is what I use and in fact all the fluids in my vehicles are AMSoil synthetics.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
753 Posts
A friend of mine sells Amsoil. He uses it in his Ram duelly diesel. He was supposed to get me info on it and he never did. He swears by it.
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top