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Discussion Starter #1
Do the Chrysler engineers troll this site? If they're smart I hope they do. Here's what I would like to see: 1) Size slightly smaller than a Tahoe 2) Diesel option 3) Nice homage to the Grand Wagoneer 4) Sane price; no more than 45 thousand for a Limited trim 5) Trail Rated. Tough to do at this size, but I think the Jeep flagship should be able to off-road.

Any other wishes?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Here's an easier way to list wanted features for Jeep's new 7 passenger model. Just add yours to the bottom of the list:
1) Size slightly smaller than a Tahoe
2) Diesel option
3) Nice homage to the Grand Wagoneer
4) Sane price; no more than 45 thousand for a Limited trim
5) Trail Rated. Tough to do at this size, but I think the Jeep flagship should be able to off-road.
6) QuadraDrive II with rear AND front ELSD's
 

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Here's the next Wagoneer:
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Don't expect a whole lot of difference other than what you can get between both of these vehicles combined. It would be wise to assume they will just plop a Jeep body on the Durango platform and add things like height adjustable suspension, etc from the GC. The big question is what the Jeep body will look like. Square and boxy really didn't do it as a sales winner last time, so look for something that shares a lot of DNA with the new GC.
 

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Don't make it look like a crossover! The new WKIIs are nice.... but they're borderline "crossover". Hell you cant tell the difference between Lexus, BMW, Honda, Acura, etc crossovers anymore with just a quick look.... they're all the same.

Also, keep the solid rear axle..... don't make them harder to modify than they already are.
 

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Also, keep the solid rear axle..... don't make them harder to modify than they already are.
I would say with the fact that the MB chasis is set up for IRS, and the GC has IRS, this request will fall on deaf ears. At least you should have the ability to lift it 2" with the push of a button.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Here's the next Wagoneer:
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Don't expect a whole lot of difference other than what you can get between both of these vehicles combined. It would be wise to assume they will just plop a Jeep body on the Durango platform and add things like height adjustable suspension, etc from the GC. The big question is what the Jeep body will look like. Square and boxy really didn't do it as a sales winner last time, so look for something that shares a lot of DNA with the new GC.
You're likely right but I really hope not. Why would they make a Jeep badged Durango? Wouldn't that just cannibalize the the Durango sales? IMO Jeep needs a vehicle that's more than a badge choice. After all these years waiting for the Grand Wagoneer to come back it would be heartbreaking to get some half-baked accountant special.
 

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I would say with the fact that the MB chasis is set up for IRS, and the GC has IRS, this request will fall on deaf ears. At least you should have the ability to lift it 2" with the push of a button.
I had that option on my range Rover and hated it. Its all fine and dandy at first..... but wait until those bags start leaking, lines start rusting, pump goes bad, sensors go bad, etc.

So on that note.... PLEASE offer a high end option WITHOUT quadralift! I love technology, but I hate air suspension setups for offroading.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I had that option on my range Rover and hated it. Its all fine and dandy at first..... but wait until those bags start leaking, lines start rusting, pump goes bad, sensors go bad, etc.

So on that note.... PLEASE offer a high end option WITHOUT quadralift! I love technology, but I hate air suspension setups for offroading.
Doesn't Cadillac have a magnetic suspension? Maybe that can be adapted to lower and raise the height obviating the need for airbags and their plumbing. Citroen has a really neat hydraulic set-up that works excellently, I think something along those lines would work.
 

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There's two huge problems with those systems:

#1) EXTREMELY expensive. No thank you.... we don't need a $70,000 Jeep.

#2) Specialized maintenance and repair. You're not servicing those systems in your garage or at a good local mechanic. Dealer only. Again, no thank you.

I'd take air bags any day over those systems. Edit: I'd much rather have air leaking than hydraulic fluid.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
There's two huge problems with those systems:

#1) EXTREMELY expensive. No thank you.... we don't need a $70,000 Jeep.

#2) Specialized maintenance and repair. You're not servicing those systems in your garage or at a good local mechanic. Dealer only. Again, no thank you.

I'd take air bags any day over those systems.
Good points... looks like we're getting airbags in the new Jeep. However, I would say we're going down that road already (expensive systems only dealers can fix) with all the black-boxes and proprietary software in them. Wouldn't it be nice if the pointy-heads at Chrysler would ask us what we want instead of force-feeding us what they think we want. I'm not sanguine about that European lot, who now own Chrysler, having a good grasp of what the Jeep marque means and what we expect to get in a Jeep badged vehicle. I mean, who the hell green-lit the Patriot and Compass, for goddness sakes? I shake my head when I see one of those sad little cars going down the road.
 

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Doesn't Cadillac have a magnetic suspension? Maybe that can be adapted to lower and raise the height obviating the need for airbags and their plumbing. Citroen has a really neat hydraulic set-up that works excellently, I think something along those lines would work.
The magnetic shocks are only for damping. There's really nothing mechanical about it that could lift a vehicle. They use magnetic fluid because it can open and close the valves much faster to respond to road conditions.
 

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Unfortunately, manufacturers are at the whim of the market..... and enthusiasts like us make up less then half a percent of the market share (you can tell by how many "active" members are on these boards). Thus, we're at the whim of the manufacturers.

For instance, with my first reply to this thread I mentioned the "crossover" look. Well... I bought the commander because I like the somewhat Retro look with squared off body lines.... but that's not what the "market" likes right now. Hence the Commander struggled with sales and these (all look alike) crossover vehicles are flying off the lots. So do you think a Chrysler employee who's scanning these forums is going to take my request as a consideration? Lol hell no.....

I guess there's a bright side.... I haven't really held on to a vehicle for a very long time yet. Maybe ill be keeping the commander for a good 10 years + !
 

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The magnetic shocks are only for damping. There's really nothing mechanical about it that could lift a vehicle. They use magnetic fluid because it can open and close the valves much faster to respond to road conditions.
I thought he was talking about the new magnetic suspension that uses linear motors and also absorbs/stores energy. I know Mercedes had it on a concept vehicle, or at least thought it was them. Read a test article once that seemed very promising.... but it'll be a looooong time before its practical in regular automobiles.

But yeah, the MR fluid that changes viscosity (and therefore damping coefficients) has been out for a while but has nothing to do with ride height. Wouldn't want that on my Jeep either! :rofl:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Unfortunately, manufacturers are at the whim of the market..... and enthusiasts like us make up less then half a percent of the market share (you can tell by how many "active" members are on these boards). Thus, we're at the whim of the manufacturers.

For instance, with my first reply to this thread I mentioned the "crossover" look. Well... I bought the commander because I like the somewhat Retro look with squared off body lines.... but that's not what the "market" likes right now. Hence the Commander struggled with sales and these (all look alike) crossover vehicles are flying off the lots. So do you think a Chrysler employee who's scanning these forums is going to take my request as a consideration? Lol hell no.....

I guess there's a bright side.... I haven't really held on to a vehicle for a very long time yet. Maybe ill be keeping the commander for a good 10 years + !
You just verbalized what I fear is going on at Chrysler. It's all bottom-line engineering and soccer mom focus groups. I remember a reading about a GM guy bemoaning the death of Oldsmobile. What did he expect when you couldn't tell the difference between an Olds and a Chevy? Olds cars ended up blending in with all the others and people forgot that Olds was still around even though it was the the car line directly below Cadillac. Jeep is 70 years old and it got there by being iconic, rugged and quirky. It never has been nor will it ever be a high-volume - a la Toyota Corolla - manufacturer. If those bean-counters in Toledo get their way and a crap-bucket Lexus knock-off rolls of the line in 2013, Jeep may not see it's hundredth anniversary.

BTW, I always keep my Jeeps at least 10 years. I end up thinking of them as if they were dogs and it kills me to part with them.
 

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Agreed. Looking at it realistically:

  • The Commander did not sell well mostly because of polarizing styling
  • Jeep has already proven the MB structure works well on the GC and it's selling like hotcakes.
  • They already have a 7-seater platform in the Durango and off-road capability in the GC. Rather than re-invent the wheel, they will combine the best of what they already have
  • The real unkown is what the exterior styling of the Wagoneer will look like. Will they go more for the GC look or try to keep it more classic like the other Jeeps? Someone get on Photoshop - quick!
 

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Agreed. Looking at it realistically:The Commander did not sell well mostly because of polarizing styling
That's not why it didn't sell well. It wasn't advertised enough (hardly at all). And gas prices started to soar shortly after it's release, which slowed the sales of all SUVs.
 

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That's not why it didn't sell well. It wasn't advertised enough (hardly at all). And gas prices started to soar shortly after it's release, which slowed the sales of all SUVs.
I think you're right. In the last 2 model years of the Commander, I don't recall ever seeing a Commander in Jeep ads.

I think another hit was the lack of storage when the 3rd row seats were up.

That and I don't really seeing a forum playing much role in any manufacturer's thinking.

As for photoshop, this is the one I like the best:
 

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That's not why it didn't sell well. It wasn't advertised enough (hardly at all). And gas prices started to soar shortly after it's release, which slowed the sales of all SUVs.
I'll agree with you on that point, but I will say a lot of feedback I've seen is on the styling. Even I am not a fan of the Commander in pure stock mode. The reason we even bought it for my wife was out of compromise.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
That's not why it didn't sell well. It wasn't advertised enough (hardly at all). And gas prices started to soar shortly after it's release, which slowed the sales of all SUVs.
I agree. This is completely anecdotal, I know, but let me pass on the experience I and my mom have had with our Commanders. She and I routinely get compliments from strangers on how good our stock Commanders look. She even got a bunch of questions from a tollbooth lady about the Commander during morning rush. My hand on a bible, not a single trip to the local parts shop goes by without at least one person commenting on my Commander. It's not lifted nor does it have exterior mods beyond the woody applique kit and a hood air deflector.

Jeep, again, dropped the ball when they failed to properly support the Commander. They blew a gaping hole in the line-up by dropping it. That's why, to my way of thinking, they are bringing a whole new 7 pax vehicle to the line-up. And I refuse to believe that the Durango wasn't well into development using the WKII platform when the new GC debuted. If Chrysler managed to develop the Durango, they could have modified the Commander to fit that platform as well.

Now, we're going to get whatever Chrysler can shoehorn onto the WKII platform and call it good instead of doing the smart and proper thing and developing a true full-size Jeep. Look how well Tahoes and Expeditions sell. Heck, there are at least three restorers who sell Grand Wagoneers that I know of. One guy in California literally rebuilds them from the tire contact patch up and he has a waiting list. A full-size Jeep would sell well, I'm confident of that. I'll say it again: the new owners don't inspire me with much confidence when it comes to understanding the Jeep marque or how to manage it.
 
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