Jeep Commander Forum banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have read and researched and looked at pictures and videos of members of this site talking about their 2" lift.

It seems the most popular formula is this: (but not entirely)

- 2" RC lift
- 265/70-17 tires on rubicon rims
- spidertrax 1.5" wheel spacers
- jba upper control arms (but not always)

I have seen so many different types of responses:

- my tires cleared perfectly
- no problems
- my tires rubbed
- i had to do a fender liner mod with a heat gun
- i had to do a pinch weld mod with a grinder or a hammer

I guess the variables are the tire tread height and the rim type.

Maybe if you are getting an AT or MT tread tire, the tread height his higher than an LT tire?

If you are going with a rim with a wider or narrower offset, it changes where the tire turning radius will possibly hit?

I guess the most frustrating part is that a lot of folks state that with the above formula of parts it was a turnkey solution - and it seems not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Ha ha! Funny... I agree with your observation. There never seems to be a strong consensus with the outcome of these mods. For example, I have a 2" lift and 265/70/17 on factory wheels (and that's all). I will rub a touch at full lock, but not nearly enough for me to go the spacer route and then have to deal with deciphering the 'spacers are horrible and my wheels fell off' / 'I've had spacers for 10 years no problem' opinion division. Yet others with the same setup as I claim to not even be able to turn their tires a full rotation????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
i think some of it has to do with the state your existing suspension -- is it worn out or has all the bushings been replaced? having just replaced my LCAs, there is a difference in how the front sits and could be tad bit higher now.


you have to evaluate the knowns and be prepared to work around the unknowns
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
336 Posts
Haha, yeah it's funny.

Have you changed anything in your suspension before?

It could be that some people don't change all their parts and ONLY do the spacer. For me, I changed everything: springs, UCA's, shocks/struts, etc. That, and tread hight, will give some various results.

I personally think if you haven't changed any suspension components since you've had it, you may just go the OME spring setup with Bilstein shocks/struts.

And yes...upgraded UCA are a must...if you want everything to work properly. The stock UCA are not meant for any kind of lift so its angles will be severe! Using the UCA rated for lifted XK's will help with this process and prolong the life of the bushings, etc.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,763 Posts
I have read and researched and looked at pictures and videos of members of this site talking about their 2" lift.

I have seen so many different types of responses:

- my tires cleared perfectly
- no problems
- my tires rubbed
- i had to do a fender liner mod with a heat gun
- i had to do a pinch weld mod with a grinder or a hammer

I guess the variables are the tire tread height and the rim type.


I guess the most frustrating part is that a lot of folks state that with the above formula of parts it was a turnkey solution - and it seems not.
I can point to a few reasons why this is the case;

Despite using the same lift kit and the same tire size there are a few variables that are almost always going to be different from one Commander to another;

1) Different suspension components; IE different Shocks/shock absorbers; Different springs; The UCA's whether they are JBA's or stock, have very little effect on the outcome one way or the other;

2) Same tire size from different tire companies; No 2 tire companies produce tires with the exact same dimensions - there will almost always be subtle differences in the width/height of 1 company's 265/70/17 compared to anothers; also some members are running P's (Passenger) tires while other are running LT's (Light Truck) Tires - LT tires are a little thicker, wider & heavier than Passenger tires.

3) This is probably the biggest & most common cause of mixed results; That would be all of the different variations in width, back spacing & offset of all the different types of after market rims that are being used;

I can tell you almost definitively, if you run a 17 x 8 inch rim with 0 mm offset and 5.5 inches of back spacing with P265/70/17's and the 2 inch Rough Country spacer lift kit, you will NOT have any rubbing - even if you have not done the pinch weld mod and have no wheel spacers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
I can tell you almost definitively, if you run a 17 x 8 inch rim with 0 mm offset and 5.5 inches of back spacing with 265/70/17's and the 2 inch Rough Country spacer lift kit, you will NOT have any rubbing - even if you have not done the pinch weld mod and have no wheel spacers.
That's a bit of a dangerous statement; the RC lift alone depends heavily on the stock springs and shocks, which may have sagged significantly.

For instance, when I threw an RC lift on mine, I rubbed even on 245/70s with stock wheels, both with and without 1.5" spacers. That's not a normal case, but it can happen.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,763 Posts
That's a bit of a dangerous statement; the RC lift alone depends heavily on the stock springs and shocks, which may have sagged significantly.

For instance, when I threw an RC lift on mine, I rubbed even on 245/70s with stock wheels, both with and without 1.5" spacers. That's not a normal case, but it can happen.
Big Blue said:
I can tell you almost definitively, if you run a 17 x 8 inch rim with 0 mm offset and 5.5 inches of back spacing with P265/70/17's and the 2 inch Rough Country spacer lift kit, you will NOT have any rubbing - even if you have not done the pinch weld mod and have no wheel spacers.
cbw;

I've used this exact set-up on stock springs, UCAs & shocks and had zero rubbing with 2 different brands of P265/70/17's.

So based on my experience, I'm pretty confident in that statement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
336 Posts
I can tell you almost definitively, if you run a 17 x 8 inch rim with 0 mm offset and 5.5 inches of back spacing with P265/70/17's and the 2 inch Rough Country spacer lift kit, you will NOT have any rubbing - even if you have not done the pinch weld mod and have no wheel spacers.
Really?!

That's weird...even with my OME lift I still get slight rubbing with 265/70/17. BUT, I am sporting JK wheels.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,763 Posts
Really?!

That's weird...even with my OME lift I still get slight rubbing with 265/70/17. BUT, I am sporting JK wheels.
Now again, I was referring specifically to the 2 inch RC spacer lift;

That being said, I'd be willing to bet that if you do some research and come up with the exact measurements, backspacing & offset of those JK rims - and compare them to the specifications that I listed (17 x 8 inch rim with 0 mm offset and 5.5 inches of back spacing with P265/70/17's and the 2 inch Rough Country spacer lift kit) you will find the answer as to why you have slight rubbing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
cbw;

I've used this exact set-up on stock springs, UCAs & shocks and had zero rubbing with 2 different brands of P265/70/17's.

So based on my experience, I'm pretty confident in that statement.
You may not have had any issues, but the state of the stock suspension varies greatly from vehicle to vehicle. As I mentioned, I ran the exact same RC lift and couldn't clear a tire nearly 2" smaller than a 265. So I'm pretty confident in saying that your statement doesn't apply to all XKs.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,763 Posts
You may not have had any issues, but the state of the stock suspension varies greatly from vehicle to vehicle. As I mentioned, I ran the exact same RC lift and couldn't clear a tire nearly 2" smaller than a 265. So I'm pretty confident in saying that your statement doesn't apply to all XKs.
That's entirely possible - there are no absolutes in the world of Commanders;

If you are running a 2 inch RC lift with P265/70/17 tires - The rim dimensions is ultimately going to be the factor that determines if you have any rubbing or not. So, I would ask you, what was the exact size, back spacing & off set of the rims you had those tires on?

Were those particular rims you were running 17 x 8 with 5.5 inches of back-spacing and 0 mm of offset? I'd be willing to bet they were not and also keep in mind, these rim specs I'm listing - are NOT the specs of a stock Commander rim.

If you couldn't clear a tire 2 inches smaller than a 265/70 with the 2 inch RC lift, obviously you had some other issues going on.

Again, I'm pretty confident in my statement and I would bet that anyone that follows this formula to the letter, will have no issues with rubbing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
That's entirely possible - there are no absolutes in the world of Commanders;

If you are running a 2 inch RC lift with P265/70/17 tires - The rim dimensions is ultimately going to be the factor that determines if you have any rubbing or not. So, I would ask you, what was the exact size, back spacing & off set of the rims you had those tires on?

Were those particular rims you were running 17 x 8 with 5.5 inches of back-spacing and 0 mm of offset? I'd be willing to bet they were not and also keep in mind, these rim specs I'm listing - are NOT the specs of a stock Commander rim.

If you couldn't clear a tire 2 inches smaller than a 265/70 with the 2 inch RC lift, obviously you had some other issues going on.

Again, I'm pretty confident in my statement and I would bet that anyone that follows this formula to the letter, will have no issues with rubbing.
Thanks Big Blue for all of the informative dialogue.

These points are well taken and will be considered.

Since researching, I decided to afford new UCAs, and since I have a 3.7L, I am hoping my springs haven't sagged too much, but I will stand ready to replace them if i run into problems.

That being said, I am planning the following:

JK Rubicon rims with 265 70 17 tires - not an aggressive tread for this time around - I just crawl around hills and trails in the Michigan lowlands at worst - its more of an upgrade to increase its stance and Rubicon-esque look.
1.5" spidertraxx
RC 2" lift
Replace tierod ends and sway bar links with Moog
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,763 Posts
Thanks Big Blue for all of the informative dialogue.

These points are well taken and will be considered.

Since researching, I decided to afford new UCAs, and since I have a 3.7L, I am hoping my springs haven't sagged too much, but I will stand ready to replace them if i run into problems.

That being said, I am planning the following:

JK Rubicon rims with 265 70 17 tires - not an aggressive tread for this time around - I just crawl around hills and trails in the Michigan lowlands at worst - its more of an upgrade to increase its stance and Rubicon-esque look.
1.5" spidertraxx
RC 2" lift
Replace tierod ends and sway bar links with Moog
@chaaz01;

I can not stress enough - make sure you find out ALL the specs on those rims, before you pull the trigger - including diameter, width, backspacing & offset; it matters - even with wheel spacers.

As far as springs sagging - with the type of coil springs XKs use, I've been told by a lot of knowledgeable guys, that the springs on Commanders will last longer then the vehicle itself - unless the vehicle was used for heavy duty towing throughout it's entire life span.

Translation - your springs are most likely fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #14

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,763 Posts
Yes thanks, but I already pulled the trigger on this set; it could end up being my bad assumption that they would be the same, but I compared rim specs here:

https://www.hubcaphaven.com/c/415/jeep_wrangler_wheels_rims.html

and here:

https://www.wheel-size.com/size/jeep/wrangler/2013/

and I did the best I could in terms of due diligence in research. I guess as soon as I can afford my new (or used - anyone?, anyone?) JBA UCAs, I will assemble it and I will know.
5x127 is nothing more than the standard bolt pattern for Jeep Commanders and Grand Cherokees.

My point was that even if the rims you ordered have the same specifications, width, offset & back spacing as stock XK rims, you will most likely have some minor rubbing with 265/70/17's.

As I stated earlier, the rim specifications I'm recommending - 17 x 8 with 5.5 inches of back-spacing and 0 mm is NOT the specifications of stock XK rims, hence the reason why you can run P265/70/17's with a 2 inch lift and have no rubbing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
That's entirely possible - there are no absolutes in the world of Commanders;

If you are running a 2 inch RC lift with P265/70/17 tires - The rim dimensions is ultimately going to be the factor that determines if you have any rubbing or not. So, I would ask you, what was the exact size, back spacing & off set of the rims you had those tires on?

Were those particular rims you were running 17 x 8 with 5.5 inches of back-spacing and 0 mm of offset? I'd be willing to bet they were not and also keep in mind, these rim specs I'm listing - are NOT the specs of a stock Commander rim.

If you couldn't clear a tire 2 inches smaller than a 265/70 with the 2 inch RC lift, obviously you had some other issues going on.

Again, I'm pretty confident in my statement and I would bet that anyone that follows this formula to the letter, will have no issues with rubbing.
@chaaz01 ;

I can not stress enough - make sure you find out ALL the specs on those rims, before you pull the trigger - including diameter, width, backspacing & offset; it matters - even with wheel spacers.

As far as springs sagging - with the type of coil springs XKs use, I've been told by a lot of knowledgeable guys, that the springs on Commanders will last longer then the vehicle itself - unless the vehicle was used for heavy duty towing throughout it's entire life span.

Translation - your springs are most likely fine.
I think you're getting the specs of your different wheels mixed up; 0mm offset is equivalent to 4.5" of backspacing, what you're running now. If I remember correctly though, your old wheels did have 5.5" of backspacing.

As far as what I ran, I ran 17x7.5 wheels with both 6" and 4.5" of backspacing. When you consider the extra width of your wheels and the extra size of your tires, my setups both fall very close to where your tires would've been; comparing 5.5" of offset on your wheels to both of my setups, my tires would've sat either 1/2" further out or 1/2" further in. Given the extra height of your tires, I shouldn't have seen any rubbing if the RC lift put us at the same height.

Now, I attribute this to spring sag, which you seem to think isn't a valid issue. When I bought my Jeep, it had only seen highway miles in California, and the tow hitch still had the factory paint on it. Clearly, it hadn't been used for towing or major off roading, and there was no rust or corrosion, so my springs should have been fine. Yet, when I swapped out my front shocks at 130k miles they were sagged so badly I had 1" of total upward travel. Given that I have the Hemi with the tow package, I should have the strongest springs sold on XKs.

I'm not saying you don't have valid points. Typically, an RC lift should be enough to clear 265s on properly backspaced wheels. And typically, springs don't sag as severely as mine did. But making guarantees about how the suspensions on these will react is dangerous; there's just too much variation in the condition even across identically specced vehicles.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,763 Posts
I think you're getting the specs of your different wheels mixed up; 0mm offset is equivalent to 4.5" of backspacing, what you're running now. If I remember correctly though, your old wheels did have 5.5" of backspacing.

As far as what I ran, I ran 17x7.5 wheels with both 6" and 4.5" of backspacing. When you consider the extra width of your wheels and the extra size of your tires, my setups both fall very close to where your tires would've been; comparing 5.5" of offset on your wheels to both of my setups, my tires would've sat either 1/2" further out or 1/2" further in. Given the extra height of your tires, I shouldn't have seen any rubbing if the RC lift put us at the same height.

Now, I attribute this to spring sag, which you seem to think isn't a valid issue. When I bought my Jeep, it had only seen highway miles in California, and the tow hitch still had the factory paint on it. Clearly, it hadn't been used for towing or major off roading, and there was no rust or corrosion, so my springs should have been fine. Yet, when I swapped out my front shocks at 130k miles they were sagged so badly I had 1" of total upward travel. Given that I have the Hemi with the tow package, I should have the strongest springs sold on XKs.

I'm not saying you don't have valid points. Typically, an RC lift should be enough to clear 265s on properly backspaced wheels. And typically, springs don't sag as severely as mine did. But making guarantees about how the suspensions on these will react is dangerous; there's just too much variation in the condition even across identically specced vehicles.
I was not trying to say that spring sag was not a valid issue in your particular case - I'm just stating that I've always been told that typically, coil springs will outlast the life of the vehicle - but clearly, that was not the case with yours cbw.

I also wonder how much heavier your 5.7L Hemi is - compared to my 4.7L - that's another potential factor that we are probably overlooking;

I'm sure the Hemi is heavier, which would mean more weight on the front springs obviously, I just don't know how much more.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top