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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Would a 5-passenger Commander make sense? In the Ford Explorer, the standard seating configuration is 5 seats with an option to upgrade to 7. I wonder why Jeep didn't consider doing the same with the Commander?

Many people buy the Commander for it's looks and don't have a need for the third row. This leaves people doing homemade hacks to remove the rear seat to get a bit more cargo room.
 

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I concur with your idea of the 5-seater. Many have just taken the rear row out as you indicate. Once you figure out just how to do it, it really isn't much of a job. I spent more time fitting up pieces of 1/2" oak to cover the exposed studs; then a couple of grey rug samples to finish. (Anybody need an extra grey cloth rear seat?? You pay the shipping....)
 

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Makes absolutely no sense to me. I need a trail rated 4x4 that can carry my family, dog and gear; hence, I need a 7 seater that is big enough to hold the 3 rows but not so big that it cannot make it through narrow trails. If I wanted a 5 seater I'd get a 4 door Unlimited which has more room than either an XTerra or FJ but is better suited for tight trails than the larger Commander. If I wanted a more road worthy trail rated SUV, then I'd look at the new Patriot.

I've heard people balk that the Commander shares the same GC wheelbase/platform proclaiming that it needs a longer wheelbase. I totaly disagree. AS IS, it handles extremely well and turn very tight for such a large vehicle making it far more nimble. Only if you need to increase wheelbase for lift and a much larger tire (such as what AEV did on their Expeditionary XK) would I agree.

XKPearl
 

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I bought my explorere a few years ago for the third row and the Commander this year for the third row too. That is why they fold down flat. I can fit a lawn mower and all sorts of **** back there.

Having the third row as an option would mean the dealer could charge more for the third row, or they would make it available only on the Limited or the Hemi's.
 

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I think that Jeep should make the 3rd row an option. Clearly not everybody wants it, but they have no choice. I'd bet that less than 25% of Commander buyers would even want the third row.....the Commander is just not big enough of a vehicle to have a "real" 3rd row anyway. It's only good for small kids or short trips.

Anyway, if the 3rd row was an option, the base cost of the Commander would surely be a bit lower. And anyone who really wants it could always buy it as an option.
 

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rooney2oons said:
Having the third row as an option would mean the dealer could charge more for the third row, or they would make it available only on the Limited or the Hemi's.
They already charge more for the third row. The only difference is that EVERYBODY pays more for the third row, even if they don't realize it.

The deletion of the 3rd row would definitely lower the price....think about it.
 

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I don't really see what the big deal is. If you don't use the 3rd row, just keep it down. That's what I do. They lay flat and when they are down provide for plenty of storage. If you rip them out what does that gain you? The same storage you would have with them down, but now you don't have the option for two extra seats... even if there is only a small chance you will ever need them.
 

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We have a mini van with removable seats. Let me tell you removing them is a PITA at 65-75lbs each. Having the fold flat, even with reduced cargo space is a blessing. It actually was a selling point and yes, I do have young kids who fit perfectly in the back.
 

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ChrisUCF99 said:
I don't really see what the big deal is. If you don't use the 3rd row, just keep it down. That's what I do. They lay flat and when they are down provide for plenty of storage. If you rip them out what does that gain you? The same storage you would have with them down, but now you don't have the option for two extra seats... even if there is only a small chance you will ever need them.
If the seats weren't there in the first place, there would be more cargo space than having them folded down. Don't you agree that the cargo floor would be lower if the Commander did not have 3rd row seats?
 

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The liftover height would be the same. Yes, you gain a bit of space like a mini-trunk but the commander has 68.5 cubic feet of usable flat space as is w/ the fast and convenient 3rd row seats.

You repeatedly dismiss the Commander 3rd row seats in your posts. But you sound like you are repeating information you may have read vs having any real experience. You've said that your 4Runner is a "Sport". If so, it cannot be had w/ a 3rd row seat as it is a 5 seater only. Lets put it into perspective:

My XK 3rd row seat has 35.7" head room, 57.4" hip room and 28.9" leg room. Now compare this to a 4Runner available w/ 3rd row 32.9" head room, 48.4" hip room and only 24.1" leg room. THe 4Runner has very little useable value whereas the Commander is very useable for kids and in fact not too bad for average sized adults in a pinch. The XK Commander 3rd row is closer to the dimensions of your 4Runner 2nd row seats which are cramped w/ a knee high seating position.

Yes I asked if you've ever owned a Jeep because you don't sound like a Jeep owner. It is a cult like owning a HD. Hondas are well made and are great products but they are not HDs. Your Toyota is well made and a great product but it is not a Jeep. This is the Jeep Commander Forum, not the SUV forum nor the 4Runner Forum.

I seriously looked at a 4Runner for a 7 seater because Jeep did not make one. Your Sport is only a 5 seater and the 7 seaters handled off road like a boat and have a huge 40 foot turning circle. Though they have a 9.1" chassis clearance, they only have the capability of 30/24 degree approach/departure angles. Toyota will not publish the breakover angle, but the two I drove hit bottom on a trail hill crest I drove them over. My XK is a 7 seater that handles well for its size on trail. It has a 36 foot turning circle and is surprisingly nimble. It has 9.9" chasis clearance which translates into 34/27 degree approach/departure angles and it does not bottom out on the breakover where the 4Runners did. My XK has a 19mpg EPA and I'm getting around 19.2mpg. The two 4Runners I tested also had 19mpg EPA but only averaged around 16mpg between the two.

I'm a Jeep fan, bought the XK and am on the XK forum!

XKPearl:)
 

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XKPearl said:
Yes I asked if you've ever owned a Jeep because you don't sound like a Jeep owner. It is a cult like owning a HD. Hondas are well made and are great products but they are not HDs. Your Toyota is well made and a great product but it is not a Jeep. This is the Jeep Commander Forum, not the SUV forum nor the 4Runner Forum.

I'm a Jeep fan, bought the XK and am on the XK forum!

XKPearl:)

Thank you XKPearl. I could not have said it better myself. The question on a 5 seat commander is this the small amount of extra space to me is not worth giving up the extra seats if I need them. Which I am sure I will and that is the point of the jeep. I bought it for that specific reason. I bought this as a long term vehicle that my family can grow into. We travel alot being my husband is navy I had to have a vehicle I could pack two dogs, me him a daugther and possibly another baby in the near future into for in some cases 13 hour drives. Commander was the one for us. We drove 10 hours straight only stopped for gas three times and I was comfy all the way. Over all though I think it is simply something that depends on the consumer buying the vehicle. Do I think making the 3rd row as an option is something for jeep to consider no because I don't think everyone is buying the commander based on looks alone. I think the 3rd row is a big selling point for a lot of families. The guys get the masculine look that no minivan is going to give and also the comfort, easiness to drive, seating and space needed in a family you get all that with a commander. Maybe I am partial I love jeeps they get under your skin and are like an itch you can never stop scratching.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hmmm... I never expected this posting to start such a firestorm.

Let me make clear my question was never a suggestion that the Commander should only be available as a five passenger!

Personally, I didn't care whether it was a 5-seat or 7-seat option. I chose the Commander for the fact I liked the boxy design better than the Grand Cherokee. Being single currently, it will be a little while before I am married and have little rascals filling up the back.

I was just curious why Jeep chose to go to a 7-seat only configuration when other manufacturers offer both 5-seat and 7-seat options.
 

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TR4Runner said:
If the seats weren't there in the first place, there would be more cargo space than having them folded down. Don't you agree that the cargo floor would be lower if the Commander did not have 3rd row seats?
True... but who needs to stack stuff that high? The height of the commander, with the 3rd down is plenty high for hauling stuff. What's another few more inches of height going to get ya? Not much vs. the versatility of being able to have two extra seats when you need them.
 

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XKPearl said:
The liftover height would be the same. Yes, you gain a bit of space like a mini-trunk but the commander has 68.5 cubic feet of usable flat space as is w/ the fast and convenient 3rd row seats.

You repeatedly dismiss the Commander 3rd row seats in your posts. But you sound like you are repeating information you may have read vs having any real experience. You've said that your 4Runner is a "Sport". If so, it cannot be had w/ a 3rd row seat as it is a 5 seater only.
I believe they stopped offering the 3rd row seat option on the 2006 4Runner Sport. Either way, it doesn't really matter. If a 4Runner buyer wants the 3rd row option, he/she will be able to get it on the other trim packages. I didn't want it because I don't need it and it's not very useful for adults, only kids.

Lets put it into perspective:

My XK 3rd row seat has 35.7" head room, 57.4" hip room and 28.9" leg room. Now compare this to a 4Runner available w/ 3rd row 32.9" head room, 48.4" hip room and only 24.1" leg room. THe 4Runner has very little useable value whereas the Commander is very useable for kids and in fact not too bad for average sized adults in a pinch. The XK Commander 3rd row is closer to the dimensions of your 4Runner 2nd row seats which are cramped w/ a knee high seating position.
While I agree that the 4Runner 3rd row is cramped, I find it interesting that you failed to mention that the 4Runner 3rd row seating has 56.7" of shoulder room, as compared to 49.6" in the Commander.

I was unfortunate enough to get stuck riding in the 3rd row of my cousin's Commander. At 6'0", it was more than a little cramped. Lucky for me, there were only 5 people in the vehicle at the time, so I was able to stretch sideways, which made things a little easier.

By the way, the 2nd row seating in the 4Runner is nearly identicle to the 2nd row in the Commander. Looking at the specs will show an advantage of about an inch of space in head room and shoulder room for the Commander, and an ince of hip room advantage to the 4Runner. By no means is the Commander 3rd row anywhere near the same as the 4Runner 2nd row. The front seat room is about the same for both vehicles, except for headroom, which is about 2" more in the Commander. Anyway, the point is that both vehicles have nearly identicle seating room in the first two rows.

Yes I asked if you've ever owned a Jeep because you don't sound like a Jeep owner. It is a cult like owning a HD. Hondas are well made and are great products but they are not HDs. Your Toyota is well made and a great product but it is not a Jeep. This is the Jeep Commander Forum, not the SUV forum nor the 4Runner Forum.
Agreed, this is a Commander forum. And there's nothing wrong with comparisons to similar SUVs, is there? Right now I'm not a Jeep owner, but I may be in the near future. In the meantime, I'm here to learn everything I can about the Commander, which is a smart move (in my opinion) for someone considering the purchase of a Commander.

I seriously looked at a 4Runner for a 7 seater because Jeep did not make one. Your Sport is only a 5 seater and the 7 seaters handled off road like a boat and have a huge 40 foot turning circle.
Actually, the turning radius is 37.4, which is pretty good for a vehicle the size of a 4Runner. The Commander is 36.8, only slightly smaller. Did you test drive the 4Runner off road? If not, how did you come to the conclusion that it handled off-road like a boat? And don't forget that the XREAS suspension comes standard on the Sport and is optional on the Limited. The XREAS suspension is much different than the standard 4Runner suspension.

Though they have a 9.1" chassis clearance, they only have the capability of 30/24 degree approach/departure angles.
Yes, the 4Runner has more ground clearance (9.1") than the Commander (only 8.4"), which is important for off-road. The 4Runner's chassis clearance is much higher than the number you quoted. The approach/departure angles are 34/27 for the Commander. More importantly, the 4Runner has a full frame as opposed to the Commander's unibody construction. We all know which is better suited to withstand the rigors of off-road driving.
Toyota will not publish the breakover angle, but the two I drove hit bottom on a trail hill crest I drove them over.
The breakover angle is published as 24 degrees for the 4Runner, which is slightly better than the 20 degrees published for the Commander.
My XK has a 19mpg EPA and I'm getting around 19.2mpg. The two 4Runners I tested also had 19mpg EPA but only averaged around 16mpg between the two.
Okay, I'm still wondering how you figured out the fuel economy on two 4Runners that you "tested." Did the dealer let you drive them home for a week? The big 23 gallon tank takes quite a few miles to empty! My last road trip gave me more than 400 miles between fill-ups, but that was mostly highway driving!
I'm a Jeep fan, bought the XK and am on the XK forum!

XKPearl:)
 

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TR4Runner said:
I believe they stopped offering the 3rd row seat option on the 2006 4Runner Sport. Either way, it doesn't really matter.
You are absolutely correct. It doesn't really matter to me because I neither want nor care for a 4Runner!

TR4Runner said:
Agreed, this is a Commander forum.
Absolutely correct!

TR4Runner said:
And there's nothing wrong with comparisons to similar SUVs, is there?
Other Jeeps?, of course! Other SUVs?, you get some slack if you own a Jeep. Non-Jeep owner praising their non-Jeep at a Jeep function or on a Jeep forum?, bad manners!

TR4Runner said:
Right now I'm not a Jeep owner, but I may be in the near future. In the meantime, I'm here to learn everything I can about the Commander, which is a smart move (in my opinion) for someone considering the purchase of a Commander.
You are 100% on the mark! You are most welcome into the fanatic cult world of Jeep and I think you will find I life of Jeep joy once you get the bug!

TR4Runner said:
Actually, the turning radius is 37.4, which is pretty good for a vehicle the size of a 4Runner.
I took chalk, a spotter, and a drivers ed lot (I do not trust Toyota numbers). I came up w/ 40 feet. I confirmed this by the same test performed and published by Consumer Reports 2006.

TR4Runner said:
Did you test drive the 4Runner off road? If not, how did you come to the conclusion that it handled off-road like a boat?
Yes I did and yes it did!

TR4Runner said:
And don't forget that the XREAS suspension comes standard on the Sport and is optional on the Limited. The XREAS suspension is much different than the standard 4Runner suspension.
It doesn't really matter to me because I neither want nor care for a 4Runner!

TR4Runner said:
Yes, the 4Runner has more ground clearance (9.1") than the Commander (only 8.4"), which is important for off-road.
The lowest point on my XK is the rear diff @ 8.6" with the factory smaller 245/65/17s. It is all moot to me anyway as I'll be using a Rusy's lift w/ taller Wrangler SAs. I'll be at the 10 inch range on my diff and closer to a foot at the chassis.

TR4Runner said:
The breakover angle is published as 24 degrees for the 4Runner, which is slightly better than the 20 degrees published for the Commander.
I asked Toyota and they said it was not published. I checked the 4x4 review and they also wrote that it was not published. I found several sources indicating 24, but that appears to be departure and not breakover. It is all moot anyway because my breakover will be greater than factory 20 degrees.

TR4Runner said:
Okay, I'm still wondering how you figured out the fuel economy on two 4Runners that you "tested."
I drove them for two days/overnight. I started w/ a full tank. After approximately 100 miles on each, I filled them back up and did the math.

I cannot speak for anyone but myself. I'm not attacking you and I have no right to stop you from doing whatever you want. I hope you get the bug and get a Jeep. It doesn't need to be new and it doesn't need to be an XK. You'll find that persons of all walks of life are welcome to participate in the numerous Jeep function across the country. That is, of course, provided they are in a Jeep!!

Best of Luck!
XKPearl:)
 

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Other Jeeps?, of course! Other SUVs?, you get some slack if you own a Jeep. Non-Jeep owner praising their non-Jeep at a Jeep function or on a Jeep forum?, bad manners!
So you are saying that comparisons to other Jeeps are welcome, but not comparisons of other SUVs? I think that's sad, and I doubt that every other Commander owner would agree with you. There are plenty of people who realize that Jeep isn't the only SUV manufacturer out there and that there are other choices besides Jeep.

I took chalk, a spotter, and a drivers ed lot (I do not trust Toyota numbers). I came up w/ 40 feet.
I decided to test the turning radius this morning to see if you are correct, Using a tape measure and white marker, I measured just over 37 feet, which is very close to the published numbers. You must not have had the steering wheel at full lock when you did the test.

Yes I did

So what dealership allowed you to drive a brand new 4Runner off-road during a test drive?

The lowest point on my XK is the rear diff @ 8.6" with the factory smaller 245/65/17s. It is all moot to me anyway as I'll be using a Rusy's lift w/ taller Wrangler SAs. I'll be at the 10 inch range on my diff and closer to a foot at the chassis.
I think your ruler is broken. Even Jeep publishes 8.4" as the ground clearance. And anyone can install a lift, so that's a moot point. The only honest comparison is stock-to-stock.
I asked Toyota and they said it was not published. I checked the 4x4 review and they also wrote that it was not published. I found several sources indicating 24, but that appears to be departure and not breakover. It is all moot anyway because my breakover will be greater than factory 20 degrees.
It is in fact a published number from Toyota. Why would you even "ask" Toyota if you said that you don't trust their numbers? LOL. And again, when I reply with the actual numbers, you revent to the "it doesn't matter 'cause I'm getting a lift" response. The only way to have an honest comparison (which YOU started, by the way) is to compare stock to stock. Lifting can be done easily on either vehicle.

I drove them for two days/overnight. I started w/ a full tank. After approximately 100 miles on each, I filled them back up and did the math.
You seem like a fairly intelligent person, so I'm sure you realize that driving 100 miles (on two different vehicles) is a poor indicator of figuring the fuel economy on any vehicle. Especially considering that you spent some of those precious miles driving off-road during your tests.

And I'd still love to know where this dealership is that let you test drive a 4Runner off-road and for two days. I've never even heard of that....much less being able to do it twice! You must have really been interested in the 4Runner to go through so much effort!! Are there any Jeep dealers that would let me take home a Commander for two days? I'd really like to do a head-to-head comparison off road with my 4Runner and the Commander, stock to stock. Somehow, I think it will be impossible to find a Jeep dealer willing to let me take a Commander home for two days. It's funny that you were able to do that with a 4Runner.
 

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TR4Runner said:
So you are saying that comparisons to other Jeeps are welcome, but not comparisons of other SUVs?.
No, I'm saying you being a non-Jeep owner continually bad mouthing Jeep and praising a non-Jeep on a Jeep forum is in bad form and a sign of bad manners.


TR4Runner said:
There are plenty of people who realize that Jeep isn't the only SUV manufacturer out there and that there are other choices besides Jeep.
I'm sure there are but I doubt that most Jeep owners would go out of their way to continually bad mouth non-Jeep choices at/on non-Jeep functions or non-Jeep forums.


TR4Runner said:
I decided to test the turning radius this morning to see if you are correct, .......
As I said, I did not look at a Sport as it is a 5 seater. 7 seater, I don't know if it had your XREAS. 40 feet same as Consumer Reports.


TR4Runner said:
So what dealership allowed you to drive a brand new 4Runner off-road during a test drive?
I doubt any would If I announced such or they thought I may damage the vehicle. I must drive off road just to get to and onto my property, I ran trails not the Rubicon.


TR4Runner said:
I think your ruler is broken. Even Jeep publishes 8.4" as the ground clearance.
Maybe the 4x2, 4x4 is 8.6" @ diff and 9.9" @ chassis. http://xkjeeps.com/xk_specs.htm


TR4Runner said:
It is in fact a published number from Toyota. Why would you even "ask" Toyota if you said that you don't trust their numbers? LOL.
It was not published in their literature nor their web page. 4x4 Review also was unable to obtain a Toyota published number. Those that were independently posted by various reviews varied from 22 to 27.


TR4Runner said:
And again, when I reply with the actual numbers, you revent to the "it doesn't matter 'cause I'm getting a lift" response.
As I said, the Commander having better approach/departure and chassis clearance on the breakover was part and parcel with my personal decision to buy the Jeep. Beyond this, it is moot for me to debate this issue w/ you any farther as mine will have additional lift and tire height. There is nothing to conceed as the stock numbers only applied when I made my initial decision which has come and gone.


TR4Runner said:
The only way to have an honest comparison (which YOU started, by the way) is to compare stock to stock. Lifting can be done easily on either vehicle..
I'll try one more time. Your personal driving style and preference is obviously different than mine. I use mine off road often and because of this I was interested in approach/departure and breakover. In addition I was interested in certain 4x4 traits that I've grown accustomed to such as a real transfer case w/ a real neutral. A 7 seater cannot be small and nibble like a TJ but I was looking for such traits for trail running not road running. In my stock to stock comparisons, I prefered the Jeep not the 4Runner.


TR4Runner said:
You seem like a fairly intelligent person, so I'm sure you realize that driving 100 miles (on two different vehicles) is a poor indicator of figuring the fuel economy on any vehicle. Especially considering that you spent some of those precious miles driving off-road during your tests.
Obviously it is not as exact as averaging dozens of tankfulls over months, but it was a consideration and helped influence my decision not only between Toyota and Jeep but also between Jeeps 3.7, 4.7 and 5.7Ls.


TR4Runner said:
And I'd still love to know where this dealership is that let you test drive a 4Runner off-road and for two days. I've never even heard of that....much less being able to do it twice!.
I've never purchased a new model vehicle w/out first testing a lease or rental, or taking one from the dealer overnight. This is a very common practice and not unusual. Driving around the block w/ a salesman tells you little. I've done this w/ Jeep, Toyota, Nissan and Ford. As I said before, I'd not announce any intentions to fording rivers nor would I intend to.


TR4Runner said:
You must have really been interested in the 4Runner to go through so much effort!! .
Yes, I four wheel alot. I drive Jeep trails in the mountains on camping, hunting and whitewater trips. My kids are getting older making such trips a family deal; thereby, my need and search for a 7 seater.


TR4Runner said:
Are there any Jeep dealers that would let me take home a Commander for two days? .
I don't know your credit rating, your criminal history or lack thereof; but if you cannot get a Jeep dealer to authorize you for an overnight test drive, I'd look at you.


TR4Runner said:
I'd really like to do a head-to-head comparison off road with my 4Runner and the Commander, stock to stock. Somehow, I think it will be impossible to find a Jeep dealer willing to let me take a Commander home for two days. It's funny that you were able to do that with a 4Runner.
Do you not have a working relationship with any dealership? Find a reputable person that has a good working relationship with someone at a Jeep dealership and have them refer you. Make sure your personal information is in order and go to the dealership with the serious intent to look at an XK for purchase. If you think it is something you may want, then request to take it overnight. I didn't even need to ask Jeep for this. Once they knew I was serious I just stated I wanted to take it home overnight.

At this point I'm done. When I read your posts they come across to me as condescending and abrasive. If that is how you take mine, well that is not my intent. I'm sure you're a good person and you really enjoy your Toyota, but I'm not interested in it.

XKPearl:)
 

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No, I'm saying you being a non-Jeep owner continually bad mouthing Jeep and praising a non-Jeep on a Jeep forum is in bad form and a sign of bad manners.
I have not bad-mouthed the Commander. If you disagree, search my posts and quote me doing so. In the meantime, please refrain from making false accusations.

As I said, I did not look at a Sport as it is a 5 seater. 7 seater, I don't know if it had your XREAS. 40 feet
All 4Runners have the same wheelbase and turning radius, in spite of being 5 or 7 seaters and having the XREAS suspension. My test proves that the published numbers are accurate.

I don't know your credit rating, your criminal history or lack thereof; but if you cannot get a Jeep dealer to authorize you for an overnight test drive, I'd look at you.
Actually my credit rating is excellent and I don't have any criminal background. I think this may be a case of location. See, in my area it is not common to test drive a vehicle by driving it home and keeping it overnight. I never heard of such a thing, but I'll be sure to mention it the next time I'm at a dealership. Do you live in a remote area? I can understand the two day testdrive if you do. Around here, it just doesn't work that way.

At this point I'm done. When I read your posts they come across to me as condescending and abrasive. If that is how you take mine, well that is not my intent. I'm sure you're a good person and you really enjoy your Toyota, but I'm not interested in it.
Sorry that you feel that way. It can be difficult to convey tone via written text; my posts were not intended to come across as abrasive nor condescending. And don't worry... I didn't take yours that way either. I do find it interesting that you deny the published numbers, but only if they aren't to your advantage. You embrace the numbers that are to your advantage. I'm glad you like your Commander and I wish you a lot of luck with it. If I end up buying one, I'll be able to give a head-to-head comparison of both vehicles from an owner's perspective. In the meantime, I'll keep asking my cousin to follow me in his Black Commander on the trails. Up until now, he always declines....citing that he needs a lift and bigger tires to do any off-road driving. Sure, the stock tires are small, but the Commander is still capable of wheelin' without twisting the unibody frame!!

Anyway, have fun and be safe;)
 
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