Interesting link... I'd go with the QDII for the Commander. It seems like the only system that compares to the 4wd system on my current SUV.

 

Quadra-Drive is far superior to the 4x4 system on the 4Runner. I had considered buying a 4Runner, and although I really liked the Hill Ascent assist and Hill Descent assist on the 4Runner, I definitely prefer the QD to the 4Runners 4x4 system. And for 2008 the Commander will have Hill Ascent Control and Hill Descent Control just like the 4Runner.

 

Ahhh jeep5253, you fell for his trap. I think he is just trying to get a rile out of us! Obviously the case since a toyota guy is hanging out on a Commander forum.

 

Yea, I know. He was on here a lot several months ago always bragging about how superior his 4Runner is. He took a lot of bashing and has been gone for awhile. Now that a lot of the members that are posting are new I guess he thinks he will try it again.

 

I went to that site a number of times as I went through the process of deciding to buy my Commander back in January. I have a jones for the Land Rover LR3, but strongly considered the 4Runner and Commander as poor man's alternatives. The information on that Website was crucial in helping me decide on the Commander; Toyota does not have anything like that online and I was disappointed. Car and Driver did a test with the 4Runner, Explorer, Grand Cherokee, Pathfinder and Touareg. That article and others I could find on the Grand Cherokee/Commander along with my test drives of the 4Runner and Commander solidified my decision to buy the Commander.

 

Yea, I know. He was on here a lot several months ago always bragging about how superior his 4Runner is. He took a lot of bashing and has been gone for awhile. Now that a lot of the members that are posting are new I guess he thinks he will try it again.

Actually, I'm a member here longer than any of you that posted so far... and I don't brag about the superiority of the 4Runner.

Good try, though.

 

Quadra-Drive is far superior to the 4x4 system on the 4Runner. .

So tell me what makes QD superior to the 4x4 system on the 4Runner.

Do you realize that it's basically the same thing? It can direct torque to a single wheel with traction, just like QD. It has a locking center differential, to keep the power distributed evenly between the front and rear axles. In short, QDII is the only system comparible to the 4Runner's system. And that's not bragging...it's just the facts.

 

Ahhh jeep5253, you fell for his trap. I think he is just trying to get a rile out of us! Obviously the case since a toyota guy is hanging out on a Commander forum.

Not at all... I'm a 4Runner owner who has been long considering the purchase of a Commander to add to our family. That is the main reason I joined this formum long ago, but I'm also an SUV enthusiast who likes to learn about all SUVs.

 

Do you realize that it's basically the same thing? It can direct torque to a single wheel with traction, just like QD. It has a locking center differential, to keep the power distributed evenly between the front and rear axles. In short, QDII is the only system comparible to the 4Runner's system. And that's not bragging...it's just the facts.

This is from the Toyota website: "Full-time 4-wheel drive with Torsen® [2] limited-slip center differential with locking feature (V8 4WD models)". Since it only has a center limited-slip diff it can only shift power between the front and rear axles. QD has front & rear ls diffs in addition to a center diff and can therefore shift power from side to side in addition to front & rear. I will say no more on the subject.

Not at all... I'm a 4Runner owner who has been long considering the purchase of a Commander to add to our family. That is the main reason I joined this formum long ago, but I'm also an SUV enthusiast who likes to learn about all SUVs.

Consider this your lesson for the day.

 

I think your funny. But I think Jeep has a great product offered here in the Commander. My wife wanted to look at the Durango but I told here I didn't like its looks. I always liked the Commander from when it first came out. So far, I have been very pleased with mine. It drives great, rides great, and has oodles of power. Toyota may make a good product also, but I always tell my family if it doesnt say Mopar I dont own it. My preference. Everyone has there own. I always wanted a Land Rover because of the hill descent thing. But, hey, then you have to deal with a whole new kinda mess of problems. I have heard people say what a break down special it is. Probally true since it comes form the makers of the "prince of darkness" wiring. lol..

 

This is from the Toyota website: "Full-time 4-wheel drive with Torsen® [2] limited-slip center differential with locking feature (V8 4WD models)". Since it only has a center limited-slip diff it can only shift power between the front and rear axles. QD has front & rear ls diffs in addition to a center diff and can therefore shift power from side to side in addition to front & rear. I will say no more on the subject.


Consider this your lesson for the day.

Somehow you failed to find any information about the 4Runner's ATRAC system, which is exactly what makes it shift power side to side like the QDII system. It's great to do research, but please make sure it is complete if you want to be an authority on the subject.

Isn't it ironic that I understand how the QDII system works, and you obviously don't understand how the 4Runner system works, yet you think you're the one giving lessons here? LOL.

 

I think your funny. But I think Jeep has a great product offered here in the Commander. My wife wanted to look at the Durango but I told here I didn't like its looks. I always liked the Commander from when it first came out. So far, I have been very pleased with mine. It drives great, rides great, and has oodles of power. Toyota may make a good product also, but I always tell my family if it doesnt say Mopar I dont own it. My preference. Everyone has there own. I always wanted a Land Rover because of the hill descent thing. But, hey, then you have to deal with a whole new kinda mess of problems. I have heard people say what a break down special it is. Probally true since it comes form the makers of the "prince of darkness" wiring. lol..

Yeah, the Land Rovers are awesome machines. I love all the high-tech off-road stuff on them.

Unfortunately, they are among the least reliable vehicle you can buy, and I wouldn't be too happy going back to the dealer all the time. That is one of the reasons I chose a 4Runner.

 

Land Rovers may have once been a decent offroad vehicle, but not today. Here's a true first hand story. My friend and I in our respective jeeps ran into a Land Rover Sponsored off road expedition in Ouray, Colorado. We told them, if you can follow us for 1/2 a day we will buy dinner for all of you if even one can keep up. If not, you all have to swear to put the plaque "Jeep there's only One" on your Land Rover for one year. They turned us down. haha. john

 

Land Rovers may have once been a decent offroad vehicle, but not today. Here's a true first hand story. My friend and I in our respective jeeps ran into a Land Rover Sponsored off road expedition in Ouray, Colorado. We told them, if you can follow us for 1/2 a day we will buy dinner for all of you if even one can keep up. If not, you all have to swear to put the plaque "Jeep there's only One" on your Land Rover for one year. They turned us down. haha. john

Land Rovers are still one of the most capable offroad vehicles you can buy. Perhaps they just weren't interested in following two guys in Jeeps during their Land Rover event. That doesn't prove anything.

 

OK, here's another one. On a fairly difficult trail at Tellico myself and 12 other jeeps came to a group of landrovers stopped at a hard obstacle. They all had on their Gucci shoes and sun glasses, we looked like a motley crew. Since they didnt know what to do they just stopped in the middle of the trail blocking it for everyone and decided to eat their lunch while they thought about it. We politely asked them to move off the trail, at first they ignored us, finally after about a 1/2 hour of sitting tempers flared and we told them move it or we would push them out of the way. So they moved. Every one of us made that obstacle, the last person happened to have a SKI ROPE in his jeep and threw it out the back as he passed and told them to HANG ON. hehe. Anyhow, they never did make the obstacle, later we saw them limping back down one of the easiest trails as if they had done something special. Hey, I got similar stories on 4 Runners too, but I know you wouldnt want to hear them. (gg) john

 

Okay, whatever. It sounds like you've got a superiority complex about anything other than a Jeep. I like to keep an open mind about all other capable SUVs.

Did you ever stop to think that those guys in the Gucci shoes might not have been very experienced in wheelin'? Sounds likely to me, based upon your story. And of course that doesn't mean their vehicles weren't capable.

Hey, I pulled a Jeep out of a snowy ditch the other day. What does that tell you about the capability of Jeeps? Absolutely nothing. Get the point?

 

Its true, I am a diehard Jeep fan. IMHO its the finest production vehicle today that can be used off and on road, especially the Wranglers. Plus, there is such a huge aftermarket for their parts that they are comparably reasonable to buy parts for. I am retired and spend nearly all my free time offroading. I have run the Baja in California, all they way to the tip of Nova Scotia in the East and many of the better known trails in between. My wife and I have seen things out west rarely seen by humans in what is left today of the Wilderness. The only two states I havent wheeled in besides Hawaii is Washington State and Alaska. john

 

Ah, I see someone crawled out from under a rock. He is on my block list, so I have the pleasure of not reading his tripe. Unless someone quotes him that is.....

 

Hahahah... don't hate... appreciate.

 

Okay, whatever. It sounds like you've got a superiority complex about anything other than a Jeep. ...

I think that since this a "Jeep Commander" forum, not a general SUV/Off-road forum you will find that most of us here feel that way.

Actually, I'm a member here longer than any of you that posted so far... and I don't brag about the superiority of the 4Runner.

What does the amount of post you have made have to do with anything. Congrats on that I guess... And contrary to that statement;

It seems like the only system that compares to the 4wd system on my current SUV.

Which I can only assume you are referring to your 4-Runner. Kind of seems like your braging to me... Maybe not, you did say that it compares.

4-Runners are probably great vehicles, just not the kind of vehicle people want to talk about in this forum.

 

Somehow you failed to find any information about the 4Runner's ATRAC system, which is exactly what makes it shift power side to side like the QDII system. It's great to do research, but please make sure it is complete if you want to be an authority on the subject....

T4 - I have searched the net trying to find a good description with not much luck. why does Toyota not have something similar to Jeep explaining exactly how A-Trac works?

The best I could find was from this site: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5036 - I have inserted a quote below which attempts to explain how A-Trac works. From what I can tell, I'd rather have QDII - It seems that A-trac would necessitate frequent changing of brake pads. Also, if I am understanding what I am reading, A-Trac only has the capability to "virtually" shift torque from left to right - QDII monitors all wheels and reacts accordingly.

I/We (Jeepsters) welcome your research and thorough explination of exactly how A-Trac works.

Here is the quote from the Toyota-4runner.org site:

"Excellent response! This is commonly mistaken and misleading in a lot of manufacturer's literature, including Toyota and Mercedes (for the ML). ATRAC is there to PREVENT loss of torque to the wheel with traction.

For example, if one wheel (in mud) is spinning on an axle, then the other wheel (on dry land) LOSES it's torque because power is routed to the wheel with least resistance (the one in mud). So, power is being transferred to wheel in mud. Now, with ATRAC, the ABS sensors will sense this slippage and apply the brake to the spinning wheel. It will apply the brake UNTIL the two wheels are spinning at the same speed (in theory)...that is, it will apply the brake to slow the spinning wheel to the same speed as the wheel that is on dry land. By doing this, it tricks the differential into thinking that the slipping wheel is also on dry land...thus, preventing all power from going to the slipping wheel. It evens out the torque distribution to both wheels. This prevents the wheel with traction (on dry land) from losing torque. Thus, it will have power to move your truck forward.

Does ATRAC really allow for 50% split?? Well, in theory, yes. However, in real life, i would say that it helps prevent torque from TOTALLY going to the spinning/slipping wheel. However, because of the stress on the brakes (brakes have to go against the power flow...aka HEAT LOSS) AND powertrain (remember, ATRAC can be quite sudden in it's operation), i doubt it. I would say that it is somewhere less than 50%. That is, ATRAC will prevent most of the torque from going to the slipping wheel. So, the wheel with traction will receive less than 50% of torque, but enough to keep your 4runner moving forward.

Thus, this is the role of ATRAC...it prevents the loss of torque from the wheel with traction...to allow that wheel to get enough power to move your 4runner forward.

This is why the 4runner has big brakes with multi-pistons and 4-channels. You need good brakes in a vehicle with ATRAC for effective ATRAC operation. In addition, 4runner powertrain needs to be beefy to take the stress of ATRAC.

How good is ATRAC?? It is as good as any limited-slip differentials (LSD) on the market. It will only lose to a true locker over rocky terrain, hill climbs, and deep mud. But then again, it is less stressful on the axles than a locker in most circumstances.

With ATRAC, it's like having LSD on the front AND rear axles. With the center diff locked, the 4runner is quite capable! ATRAC is such an elegant and simple design...no extra stuff...it just uses the existing technology (4-channel ABS, ABS sensors, etc.) to create a LSD.

Hope this makes sense...and sorry about the length.

 

What does the amount of post you have made have to do with anything. Congrats on that I guess... And contrary to that statement;

Which I can only assume you are referring to your 4-Runner. Kind of seems like your braging to me... Maybe not, you did say that it compares.

I don't have a lot of posts... I've just been a member of the forum for a long time. Almost from the beginning. The point here is that I'm not a noob to the forum.

And yes, I was comparing the QDII to the system in my 4Runner. That's not bragging. Nowhere did I say that the 4Runner system was superior... just similar.

 

T4 - I have searched the net trying to find a good description with not much luck. why does Toyota not have something similar to Jeep explaining exactly how A-Trac works?

The best I could find was from this site: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5036 - I have inserted a quote below which attempts to explain how A-Trac works. From what I can tell, I'd rather have QDII - It seems that A-trac would necessitate frequent changing of brake pads. Also, if I am understanding what I am reading, A-Trac only has the capability to "virtually" shift torque from left to right - QDII monitors all wheels and reacts accordingly.

I/We (Jeepsters) welcome your research and thorough explination of exactly how A-Trac works.

Here is the quote from the Toyota-4runner.org site:

Sounds like the A-Trac is what the Patriot uses for directing torque. It is a fairly decent system. However, it means power is being sent to a wheel that is not using it. It is then being braked to keep from unnecessarily spinning. The ELSDs send power only to the wheel that is moving (meaning 100% of the power minus driveline inefficiences are directed to that wheel(s).

 

HemiCommander,

For a great flash presentation on ATRAC, go here:

http://www.toyota.com/fjcruiser/specs.html

Click on "click here to see A-TRAC in action"

For some reason, Toyota put this in the FJ Cruiser section and not under the 4Runner section, although the systems are identicle.

BTW, the system doesn't work virtually... it really works to transfer power from the side without traction to the side with traction. The beauty of the system is its simplicity, as it doesn't require anything other than the regular stuff used in traction control and anti-lock braking. Brake pad wear isn't a concern, especially considering that the amount of braking used is absolutely minimum. I'd guess far less than 1% of brake pad wear could ever possibly be a result of ATRAC.

I recently got back from a bit of a snow wheelin' trip up in Syracuse, NY, and I've gotta say that the system has an amazing ability to let the 4Runner find traction at any wheel. The combination of the locking center differential for power split front/rear and the ATRAC on both axles to handle power split side-to-side makes it nearly unstoppable on snowy terrain.

 

The ELSDs send power only to the wheel that is moving (meaning 100% of the power minus driveline inefficiences are directed to that wheel(s).

Are you sure about that? I don't see how a locked differential (of any kind) can possibly send 100% of the power to just one wheel. I would think that a locked differential would do just that--lock the differential, meaning both wheels on the axle would receive an equal amount of torque.

Does the ESLD actually lock anything, or does it just redirect torque? Either way, the end result is the same in that power is directed to the wheels with traction.